Aircraft Market Changes

Hello all,

It seems the previous thread resulted in some issues between the poster (who I totally agree with) and Airlinesim management.

I understand the aircraft market has been changed to stop people manipulating it but I am curious that if this feature has been used in a way it was not intended why have people who have already taken advantage of it allowed to continue to operate?

The best example I see is the SKY group of various airlines based in Pearls who have taken over the Australian market with a large number of aircraft in a week and ruined the game for many players, it seems this change is really just appeasing one user while still annoying many others.

I don’t see how this is fair, AS have generally done a good job with this game but are quick to blame others and not be proactive in resolving issues raised by honest players of this game.

There are two points in your Post:

Never write names in the forum, use the support email.

And do you know exactly that he is/was cheating?

Report it to the support and they will have a look. I dont want to know how much reports they have only from this one :wink:

It’s because we are deep in "grey" territory here.

Whether something is "cheating" in this context largely depends on how the people used the new possibilities introduced by the aircraft market. We have pretty clear rules in place that concern multi-accounting. Using multiple accounts = cheating and it’s fairly easy to find and punish cheaters that do this. The problem with the new aircraft market was that multi-accounting wasn’t even required for many of the results we see today. This essentially means that in any reported case, we have to look at it and decide whether is as just "intensive usage of the new features" or actually "cheating"…a line that cannot be drawn precisely but only on a case to case basis.

When a players has "friends" - be it his alliance collegues or just anybody - whom he traded aircraft with, it’s almost impossible to punish it as cheating. As such it’s a bit like in real world law: If you change a law, you cannot apply it for actions that lie in the past. We have changed such a law - although we tend to call them game rules - and we can only punish players based on the laws that were in place at the time they were committing "the crime".

Anyhow…if you think someone should be prosecuted for misuse of the aircraft market, please contact support directly and don’t post names publicly on the forums.

As i cant PM you, system tells me that this feature is disabled for Martin!!

Martin,

I do disagree, even though i understand your point there is a issue in the game world like Pearls that made the aircraft market tip to the people that used this way to increase there aircraft population.

I also am one of the directors of an Alliance but we agreed on not playing unfair and plays the game correctly. Now we have found a problem, corrected it but left the game as is. This has been the discussion since august when introducing the new system.

Is it fair? thats up to the team, my opinion is not the right one but i do see players that went from 20 to 400-800+ aircraft in a couple of months. Strangely all are in the alliances that used this trading system.

So the question is not is it fixed but how we are fixing this.

I was (and i dont mind) one of the top airlines in Europe, then the aircraft market came into effect and i dropped to a lower position, again no problem, but the other airlines using this trade system now carry 2x the amount of pax in Europe, (18million plus) !!! And by example XXXXX (the one complaining in the other threads) ,has :

Aircraft Type owned leased overall leased out on order Ø age overall 0 442 442 0 0 5.4 yrs Airbus Industrie A320-200 light 0 246 246 0 0 5.9 yrs Airbus Industrie A321-200 standard 0 73 73 0 0 3.7 yrs Airbus Industrie A330-300 0 4 4 0 0 8.8 yrs Airbus Industrie A330-300X 0 105 105 0 0 6.1 yrs Airbus Industrie A380-800 0 14 14 0 0 0.7 yrs

All reasonable new aircraft, total value of the company: 1,841,962,556 AS$ and he owns 99% of his company. Founded 2012-06-05

Winds Iberica my airline was founded only 5 days later and has :

									Aircraft Type							owned							leased							overall							leased out							on order							Ø age													overall							4							215							219							0							2							8.2 yrs													[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=10800"]Boeing 737-500 HGW[/url]							1							28							29							0							0							16.6 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=11800"]Boeing 737-700 HGW[/url]							0							11							11							0							0							10.8 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=12200"]Boeing 737-800 HGW[/url]							0							16							16							0							0							8.2 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=12300"]Boeing 737-800 HGW(winglets)[/url]							1							35							36							0							0							10.0 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=12510"]Boeing 737-900ER BGW[/url]							0							1							1							0							0							0.4 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=14900"]Boeing 767-200[/url]							0							3							3							0							0							30.6 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=15000"]Boeing 767-200ER[/url]							1							19							20							0							0							8.3 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=15200"]Boeing 767-300ER[/url]							0							17							17							0							0							6.5 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=16400"]Bombardier Dash8-Q300B[/url]							0							1							1							0							0							18.8 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=16500"]Bombardier Dash8-Q300B LR[/url]							0							1							1							0							0							10.4 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=16600"]Bombardier Dash8-Q400A[/url]							1							54							55							0							2							1.7 yrs											[url="http://pearls.airlinesim.aero/action/enterprise/aircraftsType?id=16700"]Bombardier Dash8-Q400B[/url]							0							29							29							0							0							6.5 yrs			

This is a mix of older and new aircraft. and my company value is 538,579,634 AS$

Sorry but this example is only one.

So tell me where the solutions are to this problem?

Please explain how this can happen?

Please explain what we all can do about this unfair but legal play?

Mike

Speaking for UNITY-Skies Alliance

First of all, naming other player in the public forums is not the right way! You may report them to us and we will take a deeper look into our logfiles. But it might take some days.

I would like to PM but the system is not allowing me to PM Martin. As for the other players name, he has mentioned his own situation enough on the forum so its not hidding anything. But i agree its not the right way. I have edited the name out

<Mike

You can mail it to support@airlinesim.aero

It’s not all about the number of planes you have…what matters is if your airline has a high image and great ORS rating for its flights…other then that you can compete against anyone you want and won’t have too much of a hard time.

I’m sorry but I did report it… AS management did nothing and continue to do nothing.

It seems that rather than treat those players that played fairly with respect (which is the majority) that they would rather let the few cheats get away with it… Poor form in my view.

These airlines that have gone from from 20 to 500 aircraft should be deleted and their money refunded. That would be a fair resolution… Now we just need someone with balls willing to do something.

That has nothing to do with balls - I have several - tennis, badminton, tabletennis, hockey - but to get serious again. We will investigate each report but you can guess that we received a lot of them and that not every report is provable a cheating or usage of a bug. Whenever there is any evidence, we will prosecute this!

SK… Let me get this straight… An airline goes from 20-500 aircraft in a matter of days, starts multiple subsidiaries as they used the aircraft market as a trading tool which is not what it is for and you do nothing and expect everyone else to roll over and take it up the butt?

You have done nothing about the certain airline run my someone with 3 letters in their name in Australia based in Pearls?!?!

Do you plan on doing anything or just making up more pretend ‘we are doing things’ crap?

Btw… I also have balls… Ones that actually work.

If it is the same I’m thinking of at the moment (obviously), than I can only repeat myself that there was NOTHING ilegal. Why shall we punish this player due of his success while hundreds of other players did the same but not that often successfully.

That had nothing to do with airlines getting money by friends or by an alter ego - That was not correct and these are under investigation.

It is using the game in and the market in a way it was not meant to be used… And you did nothing.

Last I checked I was playing Airlinesim… Or has it since changed to Aircrafttrader and I did not get that memo? No airline EVER has in the real world has gone up to 500 aircraft in a bloody day?! You and your team allowed people to manipulate this feature and you do nothing… Very very poor management, can all of you be voted off the management team seeing as you are never any help?

Airlinesim or Aircrafttrader? Which one is it SK?

AirlineSim - and airlines do also offer aircraft for leasing and purchase in real life.

Sure it was not intended to do so. But … there is a market and as long as all participants have to earn money, each offer on the aircraft market not paid by a dummy subsidiary (which was not the case there) is a win-win situation for "him" and for the buying airlines.

And please stop to argue polemical - otherwise I will not continue this discussion.

What is ‘stop to argue polemical’ mean?

I’m only stating that you obviously let people get away with misusing a feature… Many people who play the game FAIRLY (google the definition of that word if you don’t know it) agree with what I have stated, you on the other hand don’t care and are happy to let people ruin the game that you are supposed to be managing.

If you don’t have the dedication to listen to the majority of fair players than perhaps you should step down.

First of all - I know the meaning of the word "fair" - but tell me - is it fair to delete one player which made somethin according to all game rules several times and not deleting other players which only did it once? If not and you suggest we should delete all, then tell me if it is fair, if you get your airline deleted because someone else made a bid on an aircraft at the aircraft market? Where is the limit what is fair or not. Our denifintion of cheating is, that additional real life money is used to gain additional money to the airline OR there is something used in a way noone else could do it OR it was an obvious bug.

What is ‘stop to argue polemical’ mean?

Not writing something like:

or

Fine… I’ll create a new topic to argue ‘polemical’??

Anyway… Having 500 aircraft in a few days is not fair… You can’t be serious to actually be asking me as to where to draw the line?

A deaf, blind and mute dog knows that this is taking advantage and is wrong. Normal aircraft trading is fair enough… Starting your holding PURELY as an aircraft trading business is wrong?

Did MHK actually have any aircraft flying when he started? Answer that one for me please.

Sure - I have to! You are telling me, that our definition is not right. So tell us yours! Maybe it is better and we can adopt it.

I’m not sure - so I can’t tell you this. But this is irelevant as it is leading back to the question above - what is fair? Where should you draw the line?

Where should you draw the line? How about if you start an airline and you are not actually flying any planes and using your enterprise/holding/subsidiary purely as an aircraft trader = WRONG! As MHK has done he became an aircraft trader and he admits that he abused the system and what do you do… NOTHING… Not much actual work being done is there buddy?

That’s a good base for you, does that make sense or did you forget again that this is Airlinesim?

Please show me the point where he stated that he abused the system (ilegaly). If so the complete holding will be deleted within the next seconds.

So if I follow your definition it would be ok to lease one LET-410, run flight/week and then I can do it the way he did and everything is fine?