Any future AS version (or at least server) modelling P2P traffic *for real*?

I have played AS some years ago, and I appreciate the improvements that the game has seen in the recent years.

However, one of the main problems (IMO) is that the game still does not do justice to the current realities regarding the ever-increasing point-to-point traffic that can be observed at least in the EU.

Don't believe me? Get a fleet of 737s and try modeling Ryanair's network in the EU (or 320s / Wizzair respectively) in AS. You will be offered the emergency rescue loan pretty fast! This is despite the fact that, for example, Wizzair has become the major carrier (in terms of passengers) in multiple Eastern European countries.

What the game needs to model is the fact that pax going from A to D are willing to drive 300 km from their city A to airport B, choose flight B - C, and then take the train for 150 km from C to D, if the price of the flight B - C is one third of the flight A - D (figures chosen at pseudorandom).

But this issue is not mainly about reflecting the current reality (at least in the EU); more than that it's about making the game more challenging and complex, at least for airlines based in countries / areas where this can be achieved - and at the moment this is only the case for:

- China;

- US;

- EU;

- to a lesser extent other places such as Russia and Canada.

Because in all other situations all you can do is to keep adding flights / upgrading capacity from a single (or at most 2 or 3) hubs...

(In this respect I wonder how many players would agree with the setting up of a server where all pax flight rights were allowed regardless of home country enterprise - just like in cargo.)

The point is that even in the large markets I mentioned above, a player that keeps adding flights to their hub (which requires no major thinking process: first serve the major airports, then 6 bar, then 5 bar etc., OK maybe prioritizing them based on ORS studies) has an "unfair" advantage compared to players willing to put more study into P2P potential markets. The player with the strong hub can charge ridiculous prices and use larger, more profitable aircraft (of course, the 321 and the 739) to defeat P2P traffic - in addition bullying other airlines into freeing up even more slots at their hub.

In conclusion, I think there has to be a way to favor traffic involving ground connections other than the ones in the ground network.

What do you think?

I agree, even on the newer servers like Gatow, I've seen 737 flights operate between Liverpool and Manchester, and it only takes me 10 minutes on the train! (and a much lower price too) This is generally the case with big airlines due to the amount of possible connections, a solution may be to increase the "rating" of public transport?

From the US here, and yes, Nobody takes the train, but I drove to Indianapolis to fly down to Phoenix, Even though flights were offered, they would've required a transfer, which I was not willing to do.

I think it goes back to the point, PRICE in the game DO NOT stimulate demand, nor there are differences between each customers as in real life. Some people are more conscious on price, while some others are less conscious. There has to be a way to simulate such phenomena if P2P model can adequately represented in the game. 

One of the large development in the future will be having different types of freight and passenger demand. But there is a long way to go for this.

From the US here, and yes, Nobody takes the train, ...

To set the record straight, 31.2 million people rode Amtrak during fiscal year 2012; that number is just for Amtrak intercity passenger trains and does not include the millions that ride dedicated commuter trains. While it may not equal ridership in Europe or Japan, that is a pretty respectable number and it is growing every year.

I know this is off-topic for this thread but I felt like I needed to say it (I am an Amtrak conductor by profession).  B)

One of the large development in the future will be having different types of freight and passenger demand. But there is a long way to go for this.

Considering the workload involved, highly appreciate your response and glad to have such development in agenda. :)

To set the record straight, 31.2 million people rode Amtrak during fiscal year 2012; that number is just for Amtrak intercity passenger trains and does not include the millions that ride dedicated commuter trains. While it may not equal ridership in Europe or Japan, that is a pretty respectable number and it is growing every year.

I know this is off-topic for this thread but I felt like I needed to say it (I am an Amtrak conductor by profession).  B)

Wouldn't it be sweet if AS could incorporate some kind of ground-based transportation that can be run by players? I think it'd be interesting. <- Not really a suggestion, just a thought.

That would be a cool twist.

You could have-

the ultra prices sensitive pax- willing to drive upto 150km if there is a ticket 10% cheaper

the business travellor- don't care about price but looks for quality.

just want to get there pax- what ever is the fastest

Would add a cool twist for the game. You would have premium carriers and then you would have the ryan air carriers. For example the pax demand in FRA will effect the flights potential in Frankfurt hahn- you could set up a ryan air flights from there and take some direct traffic out of FRA as the price sensative customes will travel to hahn to get a plane.

If we're going to have different types of passenger then we need to have the ability to set more than one price for each class (e.g. discount economy & discount business fares for a % of seats on each route)

and with that...this could become interesting yield management simulation.

AS is a very solid game in and of itself. The premise is sound, the execution for such a complex business is incredible, and the gameplay is just hard enough to keep people enthralled and learning more every day, yet not so hard as to be impossible to advance without conquering.

I've always thought that AS could be diversified. Instead of just airline companies, there could be marketing companies (and a possible way to create marketing), other transportation companies, maintenance companies, manufacturing companies, and many others.

Again, these are just fun ideas, not suggestions.

It also seems as though the current passenger demand model is based on relative airport volume rather than actual departure/arrival points. This skews PAX demand artificially high at hubs of major real-world airports (e.g., see Atlanta). I'm not sure if data is publicly available on actual departure/arrival points, but it'd certainly add some realism!

I don’t think it is just based on the airport size because their are many airports which are build for much more passengers than they actually have.

I think they actually do go by departures.

It also seems as though the current passenger demand model is based on relative airport volume rather than actual departure/arrival points. This skews PAX demand artificially high at hubs of major real-world airports (e.g., see Atlanta). I'm not sure if data is publicly available on actual departure/arrival points, but it'd certainly add some realism!

Hi,

you are correct. But airport to airport data are available. Origin to destination data on the other hand...

Jan

Just an idea.

Maybe we could try to fixate PAX demand based on a single city, instead of a single airport. And we could set up an airport's image which come from the general image of carriers operating there. The image and the distance from the city decide how the total demand would distribute.

That make it possible that if the carrier (or group of carriers) in HHN  provide better price performance ratio, then HHN could overwhelm FRA.

Sounds easy and we had this in mind several times, but the difficulties are obvious if you look into the details.

if you take Berlin, everybody would agree that SXF,TXL (also BER and THF) will have it's demand directly of Berlin Region. But with HHN you will have the first problem. How are the regions defined and how the demand calculated?

The ground network might help. Starting from the very centre of the city, longer distance would increase the negative ranking, so further your hub located from the city, the better travel product you've to offer to compensate the distant negativity.

I don't know if there's a certain radius limit in current ground network system, after looking it up in the airport page, both numbers and distance of the neighbor airports are various. How the team designed the current ground network system? What factors have been taken into consideration?

That is not a problem, the problem is more or less - where is the demand located geographicly. For Hahn there is demand from Cologne, Frankfurt, Saarbrucken, etc. and of course the villages and cities in between. Finding a demand vor a citly like Colone might be possible. But where on in which amount is a demand located. Having this calculating the demand for a specific airport or calculating the rating for travelling to an airport is not the problem.

Wouldn't it be sweet if AS could incorporate some kind of ground-based transportation that can be run by players? I think it'd be interesting. <- Not really a suggestion, just a thought.

It would definitely be interesting!