With the new seating configuration we decided to make one step closer to reality. Unfortunately a few player don't want to go this way and found some gaps which never meant to be this way or would never be successful in reality. This includes the extensive usage of small seats in higher classes which are only possible due to the undercapacities on server start or the usage of small aircraft on larger routes to have the control over the slots which will become rare. We consider this to be unfair against all other airlines - even if they have the same technical possibility. In the preambel of the game rules we ask for a fair play. Especially on Aspern we will review the reported airlines and we may reset these airlines.
I want to ask: is using slimline HD or standard seats in C class an abuse? If it is considered abuse, so why are these seats offered at all in cabin editor for those classes? If AS wants to limit using these seats (or considers them abuse) those seats should not be offered AT ALL in cabin editor of those classes. Yes I do use slimline HD and standard seats in C class on some routes on some planes where competition is not heavy or non-existent. Why should this be considered abuse?
But AS is again doing something that they lament later and then try to bandage it with a first aid kit by imposing strange new regulations. It has never been considered abuse to use standard, or economy or whatever seat in C class.
AS should make an official proclamation of what constitutes "small seats in higher classes" abuse... and they CANNOT EXPECT AT ALL THAT THOSE SEATS WOULD BE CHANGED IMMEDIATELY because funds must be paid to replace those seats. Also it's retrospective so therefore morally wrong to now impose such a regulations on existing seat configs. So if AS says using slimline HD in C class is illegal, they should give a month's time to change those seats. What they can do, however, is prohibit implementing such seat config on new deliveries (deliveries made after their clarification of this issue). Then comes the reporting. I do not think just resetting the airline is morally correct (especially for seat using) while slot hogging is a different matter. A warning should be sent by PM first. A lot of airlines use slimline HD or standard seating in all of classes. So why make it illegal? And after reporting it, AS would need to check whether an illegal seat configs were installed befpre or after proclamation of AS.
So now we are waiting for AS to PLEASE CLARIFY what constitutes an illegal seat config.... and then give sufficient time for correction.
I want to ask: is using slimline HD or standard seats in C class an abuse?
That was also my first thought. I think (or hope) they refer to people using 50% of the planes capacity for HD-Seats in Eco and the other 50% for HD-seats in Business.
I guess this is then considered "extensive usage of small seats in higher classes". Or an all Business HD-Slimline configuration for the LETs
I do believe the AS team is right in proclaiming this issue. There are many airlines offering max seats due to the start of the server demand. As for real world those pax would never fly for those outrageous prices with those seats.
I have seen max price lowest seating. Making lots of profits but not realistic.
Talkng about the cost of replacing the seating is a minimal investment even after the returns these airlines have had.
Personally i have a realistic airline with realistic seating and food. But the choice is mine and some make other choices.
There are some airlines that have more than half of their cabins as business class and they are all slimline seats. In fact there are some that have the entire cabin as business class and again with only slimline seats. All of these airlines are now much, much bigger than all of their competitors and have much larger fleets after only a few weeks. If you were one of the airlines that figured out how to exploit this loophole from the very beginning of Aspern, you are now at a hugely competitive advantage to all the other players, and they will not be able to catch up to you no matter how hard they try.
In the other game worlds such as Gatow, I would only have about 10% of my seats as business, because that would usually suit demand. This is how I started out my seating configuration in Aspern as well, however after 2 weeks I noticed that there were a few other airlines, almost all of which are in Earth Stand, which had more than 50% of their cabin as business class with slimline or standard seats (and in some cases even 100%). These airlines had already doubled the size of their initial fleet when I had only been able to add 1 or 2 more aircraft in that same time. I finally realised that to stay competitive with these airlines (one has a hub in the same airport as me) I had to change all my seating configurations at a great cost, and I now have about 30% of my seats as business class with standard seats. This has helped my airline to grow faster and compete better with those airlines, but I will still never be able to catch up with them . . .
. . . in short, there are just a few players that have far too much of an unfair advantage over the hundreds of other players in Aspern. This is just not fair to the vast majority of us and I believe that many of these airlines should therefore face deletion to level the playing field, because they are only going to get bigger and bigger and will soon be able to dominate Aspern almost completely. Even if they are forced to change their seating configurations, they still will have much larger fleets than everyone else which will give them far too much of a competitive advantage in the future. What they did may not have been technically illegal (although in some ways it definitely could be seen as cheating) and may also just have been very good strategy, but it will actually make the game too difficult for everyone else. The whole point of Aspern was that it was supposed to be more 'fair' than the other game worlds, so if the AS Team see things that are making it unfair, then they are right to take action and make it clear what is acceptable behaviour and what is not and make any necessary deletions as they see fit.
To ask a question is pretty useless if you just want to give yourself an answer that works as a base for a discussion. ;) Are Slimline or Standard Seats in C an abuse? Not necessarily, as it can be a quite realistic. But if you are using them extensivly in a way that is highly unrealistic, you may rethink your decission and use a different configuration. This kind of usage was unfair even before the introduction of the new route, although a legal limbo. Now it is officially forbidden, and everyone who's not going to change it will have to face the penalties. The costs for the cabin change, well, let's see it as kind of indulgence. ;)
Oh, and don't use this thread to insult or show anybody up, we don't want these things here. If you have any complaints about other players, write a mail to support@airlinesim.aero.
To ask a question is pretty useless if you just want to give yourself an answer that works as a base for a discussion. ;) Are Slimline or Standard Seats in C an abuse? Not necessarily, as it can be a quite realistic. But if you are using them extensivly in a way that is highly unrealistic, you may rethink your decission and use a different configuration. This kind of usage was unfair even before the introduction of the new route, although a legal limbo. Now it is officially forbidden, and everyone who's not going to change it will have to face the penalties. The costs for the cabin change, well, let's see it as kind of indulgence. ;)
Oh, and don't use this thread to insult or show anybody up, we don't want these things here. If you have any complaints about other players, write a mail to support@airlinesim.aero.
I want to know some quesions：
1.which seat called the extensive usage of small seats ？
2 how many seats in higher classes called extensive？
if I was low-cost airlines I use HD as Y and Standrd as C is it quite realistic？
@miles_r ... yes I had to do the same...about a week ago... after I noticed what my competition was doing and in order not to stay too far behind (but I am still way behind). And yes the competitor is ES airline. But I never put more than 1/3 of seats in C and I still have 50% of my fleet running leisure plus/recliner SH seats. But I am not willing to make additional investment to reconfigure half the fleet with slimline HD with other seats now... I had to do it to NOT stay BEHIND. I am all for using more reasonable seating, but then again, give players some time to replace/recoup investment and ALSO remove such seats from respective class in cabin configuration tool.
But if you are using them extensivly in a way that is highly unrealistic, you may rethink your decission and use a different configuration. This kind of usage was unfair even before the introduction of the new route, although a legal limbo. Now it is officially forbidden, and everyone who's not going to change it will have to face the penalties.
There is a saying in English that the Beauty is in the Eye of Beholder and in Spanish that Para los Gustos Hicieron los Colores.
What one player may consider normal, not extensive, other can consider abuse. Each player has his own individual view and take on situations. We are not clones of each other and everyone thinks differently.
Therefore if AS wants to impose the rule, it also has to provide "specifications"... every rule has its regulation, which explains and implements the rule.
It is NOT sufficient to throw around words such as "extensively"... "abuse"... etc... unless you explain what "extensive" and "abuse" means for you.
I think they are focusing on a few specific airlines that are using extremely cheap seats and maxing out the cabins due to the high demand and low supply on the server start. I think if you maintain an at least realistic cabin configuration you will be safe. Otherwise if you are abusing the system so as to generate money much faster than realistically possible considering the game mechanics and such.
I think they are focusing on a few specific airlines that are using extremely cheap seats and maxing out the cabins due to the high demand and low supply on the server start. I think if you maintain an at least realistic cabin configuration you will be safe. Otherwise if you are abusing the system so as to generate money much faster than realistically possible considering the game mechanics and such.
can you tell me what is the realistic cabin configuration ?
So what is to be done when someone already has a massive airline on a new server. Any actual policing going to take place? Just look at who has the largest fleets of 737 etc. I’m waiting on my 4th by doing it right some have 20+. Will they be reset? If nothing is going to be done then what’s the point. There’s already people who have a massive advantage.
The whole situation is quite simple actually . . . there are always a few players that are constantly looking for massive loopholes to exploit that will give them a ridiculously unfair advantage over every other player. The launch of Aspern has unfourtunately been no different, and the same thing happened with loans in the used aircraft market when it was introduced in Pearls. It is quite easy to see who these players are, just look for the ones with fleets that are 3 or 4 times larger than everyone else, and it is quite easy to take the necessary action against them, which I really hope the AS team do !!!
These players know exactly what they're doing, so I won't feel the least bit sorry for them if their airline gets deleted. I could have bought a whole lot of LETs by now and flooded my hub airport to the detriment of every other airline there (2 airlines have already done this in LHR and I hope they get deleted too), but I havn't because I clearly recognise that such behaviour would be blatantly unfair to all the other players SO THEREFOR I DID NOT DO IT !!!
Please people, of course play COMPETITIVE and play HARD, but most of all please remember to also play FAIR !!!
Basically a coordinated group like earth stand violates the fair play policy, people with 85+ aircraft already THEN they acknowledge the issue. They should just reset Aspern.
Excellent move by the AS team, thank you ;-) If you check the 10 biggest airlines passengerwise on Aspern you see that almost all of them use this kind of strategy, so the people using this strategy are taking away ressources (slots, passengers...) from the people who use a realistic strategy. Would it be possible to change the software to make it impossible to use Slimline or Standard seats in Business class? I can't think of any case where it would be realistic to use it. The only airlines which can afford to use this strategy in real life (and only on short haul flights) are airlines which have a very high image with the passengers and an extensive longrange network with a good service.
The PAX will not prevent themselves from getting bent over by an airline, which is a problem. If you wouldnt fly IRL in the seating configuration then its not fair play. ES has made the last 4 server starts misreable, and they know they cheat to do it, jsut asked them. They will flat out tell you they game the system. +1 for perm-banning them .
Excellent move by the AS team, thank you ;-) If you check the 10 biggest airlines passengerwise on Aspern you see that almost all of them use this kind of strategy, so the people using this strategy are taking away ressources (slots, passengers...) from the people who use a realistic strategy. Would it be possible to change the software to make it impossible to use Slimline or Standard seats in Business class? I can't think of any case where it would be realistic to use it. The only airlines which can afford to use this strategy in real life (and only on short haul flights) are airlines which have a very high image with the passengers and an extensive longrange network with a good service.
The PAX will not prevent themselves from getting bent over by an airline, which is a problem. If you wouldnt fly IRL in the seating configuration then its not fair play. ES has made the last 4 server starts misreable, and they know they cheat to do it, jsut asked them. They will flat out tell you they game the system. +1 for perm-banning them .
you can choose do not play nobody force you play at the beginning
you can choose do not play nobody force you play at the beginning
You cand choose to cheat and AS can choose to reset the cheaters like you who prevent them from making money on thier game worlds. I could also choose not to play, sure, but whose choice matters more?
I think it is pretty obvious that the team feels this situation cannot be tolerated. Anyway, some kind of limitation like minimum standard for business class or first class should be applied. This is the easiest thing to do, while affecting "some" people only.
nobody is suggesting this, as its not possible...but as this is a simulation it should be as similar to reality as possible without spoiling the fun. And in this case we have an easy situation: the situation, as it is, is not realistic and the current situation is spoiling the fun of most players (those who are not exploiting this bug). So with the rule the game get more realistic AND more fun.