I would like to clarify what happens when a passenger airline sets up routes for which it does not have traffic rights. Does the game allow these routes to be created? If so, what happens? Are the flights allowed to fly, but without passengers?
Yes, the flights will be created and flown. No passengers will book, and therefore you'll have a loadfactor of 0%.
Banff is correct, but there might be bookings under special circumstances:
Example:
Your airline is based in the US and you are flying from larger airports in the US to London. If you create flights from London to Frankfurt (even with another aircraft), you may have booking on this flight without having passenger rights. But these passenger were all feedered by your own airline from the US to London vv.
Thanks to both for the clarification. I asked because I came across a European airline that has a virtual "hub" in the US with several routes radiating out from it. I suppose that they are either trying what sk has described or they are in for a rude awakening.
I suppose it is used as a way of getting around traffic rights restrictions, although I do not think I would do it.
Seawald, really interesting. Actually a nice way to offer service to several US destinations. You would have option to either fly directly, interline, or do what you described. You bring lots of PAX e.g. from high-demand airport such as LHR, CDG, FRA to another airport in USA and fom there you do connecting flights for your own passengers. Interesting concept.
Seawald, really interesting. Actually a nice way to offer service to several US destinations. You would have option to either fly directly, interline, or do what you described. You bring lots of PAX e.g. from high-demand airport such as LHR, CDG, FRA to another airport in USA and fom there you do connecting flights for your own passengers. Interesting concept.
I agree that it is an interesting concept. In my personal opinion, though, it does not really go with the spirit of the rules.
... though, it does not really go with the spirit of the rules.
Hi,
I don't know if it is against the spirit of the (game) rules. The laws are created to protect domestic markets, and the game only reflects those real life laws.
A USA based airline could say I shall create domestic flights to my New York hub and from there to different airports in Europe. That airline could also say I shall create many international flights to London, and from there to different airports in Europe. In both cases only American passengers can book tickets for the flights into Europe.
The virtual hub in London could be more efficient (if you forget about the limited slots ;-) if you want to serve less popular airports in Europe. You use wide bodies between the big airports in the US and London, and narrow bodies between London and the different airports in Europe. I mean... you may not have enough transfer passengers to fill a wide body from New York to Geneva, but enough to fill a 737 between London and Geneva.
But from a commercial point of view, a London based airline would prefer the first option: the US based airline flies passengers from all over the US into London, and he gets the transfer passengers to other European airports ;-)
Jan
I agree that it is an interesting concept. In my personal opinion, though, it does not really go with the spirit of the rules.
It is perfectly within the rules and perfectly realistic. The game was specifically programmed to make this (and other pieces of internaltional alw and treaties) possible.
In the US Qantas flies JFK-LAX, but you make not book this flight unless it is part of an itinerary transfering on to Aus. Airlines used to operate these kind of routes much more often back in the day, but with global alliances and codeshare agreements they have fallen out of favor.
Airlines used to operate these kind of routes much more often back in the day, but with global alliances and codeshare agreements they have fallen out of favor.
I remember back in 2002-2004 or somewhere around those days, Iberia had stationed couple of narrowbodies in Miami, and they were doing Central American routes, I remember they could not have been booked directly only part of connecting flight to Iberia and other airlines arriving from Europe.
.... and yesssssss.... here is some info
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/print.main?id=252144
and
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4390366/
Seawald, really interesting. Actually a nice way to offer service to several US destinations. You would have option to either fly directly, interline, or do what you described. You bring lots of PAX e.g. from high-demand airport such as LHR, CDG, FRA to another airport in USA and fom there you do connecting flights for your own passengers. Interesting concept.
If I understand the rules of this game correctly, this is not possible. If you don't have traffic rights, your passengers cannot transfer to that flight. So, if you're based in he UK and have 2 flights: LHR-JFK-LAX and LHR-JFK-ORD, your passengers from the first flight cannot change to the 2nd flight in JFK and viceversa. They have to stay on the same plane. Therefore, a "virtual hub" in a country you have no traffic rights" is not possible.
Although EU airlines have no traffic right in US, but they can transfer passengers within US. As said, a british airline can fly from LHR to JFK. This can airline can further connect JFK to LAX but with their passengers flying from LHR. So, if the airline has lots of connection between LHR and JFK, the route of JFK to LAX will probably be filled up because it has lots of transferring passengers (so called another kind of "via").
This does also apply to British Airways in which it connects LHR and Australia "via" SIN. But, it has no traffic right between SIN and Australia.
So, if you're based in he UK and have 2 flights: LHR-JFK-LAX and LHR-JFK-ORD, your passengers from the first flight cannot change to the 2nd flight in JFK and viceversa. They have to stay on the same plane. Therefore, a "virtual hub" in a country you have no traffic rights" is not possible.
Well - as described before, especially this is possible, but ...
You bring lots of PAX e.g. from high-demand airport such as LHR, CDG, FRA to another airport in USA and fom there you do connecting flights for your own passengers.
... as a european airline i.e. based in Germany, you are not allowed to transport passenger (at AirlineSim due to some special reasons) from outside Germany to any country not part of the EU Treaty.
So, if you're based in he UK and have 2 flights: LHR-JFK-LAX and LHR-JFK-ORD, your passengers from the first flight cannot change to the 2nd flight in JFK and viceversa. They have to stay on the same plane. Therefore, a "virtual hub" in a country you have no traffic rights" is not possible.
Well - as described before, especially this is possible, but ...
... as a european airline i.e. based in Germany, you are not allowed to transport passenger (at AirlineSim due to some special reasons) from outside Germany to any country not part of the EU Treaty.
So, as the saying goes, you learn something new every day. I thought it was as I described. Good to know this is possible.
You're welcome ;)
I have a question on a different note - If your flight’s origin and destination are in the same country, can you have an intermediate stopover in a second country? Examples include:
-
CDG (Paris Charles de Gaulle, France) --> SIN (Singapore Changi, Singapore) --> NOU (Noumea Tontouta, France).
-
ANC (Anchorage, USA) --> YVZ (Calgary, Canada) --> ORD (Chicago O’Hare, USA).
-
LHR (London Heathrow, UK) --> LOS (Lagos Murtala Muhammed, Nigeria) --> MPN (Mount Pleasant, UK).
-
JNB (Johannesburg, South Africa) --> MSU (Maseru, Lesotho) --> CPT (Cape Town, South Africa)
Yes, and you will have traffic rights on all 3 legs
(ABC, AB, BC)
Does thet count the same for all regions? For example Turkish Airlines operate IST - NSI - DLA - IST in real life. Would that also be possible in the game? Like triangular flights back to the original departure port?
Thnx
In a way yes. Passengers with that triangle would be able to book...
IST-NSI
IST-(NSI)-DLA
NSI-(DLA)-IST
DLA-IST
Passengers will not be able to book
NSI-DLA
That's a possible scenario, with passengers of course only having traffic right to and from turkey, but not NSI-DLA.
There might be only passengers on NSI - DLA when they are already on board your aircraft from IST and keep sitting there. There won't be new passengers.