How long until you can buy an aircraft

How long must you lease an aircraft from AS before you can purchase it?

thanks

mikk

four weeks

ok- If you lease a plane from a company- and it is a lease only offer- and the company then goes bankrupt or is liquidated therefore AS takes over the lease- can you buy the aircraft off AS after 4 weeks?

No. You can buy the aircraft when it comes up for auction.

No. You can buy the aircraft when it comes up for auction.

He asks whether he can buy a plane he is already leasing. This is his scenario:

He leases plane form Company X, which offered the plane for Lease-Only.

Company X goes bankrupt.

AS Aircraft Co. takes over the aircraft and is now lessor.

His lease is automatically modified from Company X being lessor to AS Aircraft Co. being lessor.

His lease terms are not changed.

His question is: Will he be able to buy the aircraft from AS after 4 weeks?

Edit: Wording correction.

Ah. Me - Coffee = Misunderstandings a-Plenty.

ok- If you lease a plane from a company- and it is a lease only offer- and the company then goes bankrupt or is liquidated therefore AS takes over the lease- can you buy the aircraft off AS after 4 weeks?

Hi,

you should be able to buy from AS four weeks after AS has taken over the lease.

Jan

ok great. 

I want to make an aircraft swap with an alliance member. My plan is to create a subsiderary- lease the aircraft to their airline at a cheap rate and then delete the subsidiary. This way we can make sure that some body doesn't out bid us while we make a swap as we will be swapping a heap of valuable aircraft to try and optimise our fleets. 

Is this ok?

Uh, I have no idea if it's called "cheating" but I think any money you spent on the plane might disappear, and if it didn't, then it might be considered cheating. You'd be sinking a lot of money into a subsidiary, buying a plane, then leasing it out and deleting the subsidiary? What kind of plane are you thinking of doing this with?

We both own a heap of aircraft so we just want to swap them with each other. We can't guaruntee a safe way to do this without somebody else bidding on them. 

It makes no difference if we take a loss on them- we take a loss anyway as you get a very low percentage of the value back when you liquidate your airlines etc. The only way to get something back is to find a buyer- and this is not possible for 2 billion worth of aircraft. 

ok great. 

I want to make an aircraft swap with an alliance member. My plan is to create a subsiderary- lease the aircraft to their airline at a cheap rate and then delete the subsidiary. This way we can make sure that some body doesn't out bid us while we make a swap as we will be swapping a heap of valuable aircraft to try and optimise our fleets. 

Is this ok?

I think it would be OK if you are LOSING money on the deal (you can offer lease for 10% of the value, if leasing so cheap would be cheating it would not be such an option in the game features), but remember there is no way to lease directly to other airline without going through the used market. Once you put it to used market for lease, anybody can bid on it unless you coordinate the time when very few people are logged in to the server.

Also, if you want to offer the very minimum price for the aircraft, if some other player finds out he may want to bid on that aircraft as well, so there goes your little plan ...

We both own a heap of aircraft so we just want to swap them with each other. We can't guaruntee a safe way to do this without somebody else bidding on them. 

It makes no difference if we take a loss on them- we take a loss anyway as you get a very low percentage of the value back when you liquidate your airlines etc. The only way to get something back is to find a buyer- and this is not possible for 2 billion worth of aircraft. 

I give you better idea.

Put that aircraft into subsidiary.

IPO the subsidiary.

Regardless of who buys the 20% of the shares you still own the 80%. And during IPO the other airline may get good chunk of those 20% other shares.

Then, sell 80% of the shares to the other company.

With the ownership change, the other company now controls the subsidiary with the aircraft. They also acquire traffic rights of the country of the buyer when he becomes 80-100% owner of such subsidiary. I think this approach may be faster and cleaner than going through leasing, subleasing etc.

I give you better idea.

Put that aircraft into subsidiary.

IPO the subsidiary.

Regardless of who buys the 20% of the shares you still own the 80%. And during IPO the other airline may get good chunk of those 20% other shares.

Then, sell 80% of the shares to the other company.

With the ownership change, the other company now controls the subsidiary with the aircraft. They also acquire traffic rights of the country of the buyer when he becomes 80-100% owner of such subsidiary. I think this approach may be faster and cleaner than going through leasing, subleasing etc.

Possibly, but there's still the risk of being filched on it. If you put up shares to sell, and someone else puts in the maximum price, they might get the shares before your friend does. Just like the used aircraft market, everyone has access.

I really do not know how does stock market work. I thought you can put a "request" for buying stock at market price, the seller then accepts the request and transaction is concluded. At least it seemed to me this way from what I saw in stock market page. But again, I have never traded stock myself yet. If it works this way, then it's a fail-safe. A request would be placed by new buyer, and seller would then accept. Transaction finished. If somebody else puts a "request" other then desired buyer, the other stockholder (80%) simply is under no obligation to accept.

edit: spelling

Basically, it works like this -- Seller has 100 shares of stock. He wants to sell at $100. He puts the sell order in. Buyer A comes along and sees that there's stock for sale and he puts in a buy order for 100 shares at $100, trying to get that stock. Buyer B comes along five minutes later and sees that there's stock for sale, and someone's wanting to buy, but he's willing to pay more. He puts in a bid of $110 for 100 shares.

The stock market exchanges shares every 15 minutes (I think). So when the game status gets to that, it transfers the shares from Seller to Buyer B. Seller gets $10,000, Buyer B gets 100 shares, and Buyer A is left out because the game is thinking Seller wants to get the most money out of his shares. When the trade goes through, the price adjusts as well. If the current share price listed was $100, it would go up because shares were traded at more than $100.

Well... I have just placed a test buy order, without stock being offered for sale.

Game status shows  a process called "Execute stock exchange trades", so buy request and ell can all be timed within a very narrow window before the update takes place.

There is still an element of risk, but mush lwss than doing it through used market where you have a one-hour window for others to "chime in", instead of maybe a one-minute window on stock exchange.

ok great. 

I want to make an aircraft swap with an alliance member. My plan is to create a subsiderary- lease the aircraft to their airline at a cheap rate and then delete the subsidiary. This way we can make sure that some body doesn't out bid us while we make a swap as we will be swapping a heap of valuable aircraft to try and optimise our fleets. 

Is this ok?

Hi,

if you delete your airline, AS will pay you 15% of the value of the plane. If it is okay for AS to buy that plane at 15% of its value, I would say it is also okay for your friend to buy that plane at 15% of it's value. You know... what is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Besides, if AS buys your plane at 15% of its value, AS will put that plane on the market the next day for a lot more. If your friend leases/then buys that plane cheaply, he will only be able to sell it cheaply.

Two years ago I have deleted an airline on Stapleton. Last year I have deleted an airline on Pearls. In both cases I have sold all my owned planes at 10% of their value. Half of them were sold to alliance members and interlining partners, the other half were publicly sold. The public sale was announced on the forum here, but no plane got more than two biddings and we're talking about nearly new 73G's. So you could even try to sell them openly.

Anyway, the safest way is to do as you planned... put them in a subsidiary, lease them cheaply and delete the subsidiary. When you delete the subsidiary, AS will pay you exactly the same as what your friend will pay when he buys them  :-)

Putting the planes in a subsidiary and then go public is a very expensive way to sell them. If for example you put ten 73G's in a subsidiary, the shares of that airline will be worth 460 million dollar... Then you can just as well sell them on the market at 100%. I guarantee you, nobody will outbid your friend  :-)

Cheers,

Jan

I think we are not concerned about loosing value on the books- we just want to find a way to transfer the aircraft to each other without being out bid by everyone. 

My only question is this. Say i lease the aircraft at 10% of the value and then liquidate- how much will be lessee be able to buy the aircraft from AS for. Will it be full price or 10%?

Hi,

if value is not an issue, your friend can just order brand new planes, and if you sell them at book value, nobody will outbid your friend  ;-)

When you delete, AS will take over the lease contract under the same conditions. If a plane is leased for 10% of the value, it will be sold at 10% of the value.

Have a nice weekend,

Jan

ok so just to make sure if i lease an air craft for 10% of the value- liquidate the company- the lessee will only pay 10% of the value to purchase the aircraft 4 weeks later?