Interline

Before joining the discussion, it's really recommended to read following thread:

http://community.airlinesim.aero/topic/8123-as-for-beginners-an-attempted-blog/?p=68461

I am trying to answer questions about benefit of interline for following scenarios:

1. Interline with airlines in same country, either different or same hub.

2. Interline with airlines in different country, which you don't fly to their hub, but it flies to your hub.

3. Interline with airlines in neighboring country with small or insignificant domestic market

While the ultimate answer will depend on individual airlines market and demography, we might be able to draw some general answer based on simplified analysis or perhaps your experience. 

1. Interline with airlines in same country, either different or same hub.

For airlines based in same hub, I think the interline will initially help both airlines to grow their network. But at a later stage, when they have smaller room for further growth they will start cannibalizing each other market. While some agreement can be discussed to better share the market, I doubt both airline willing to limit their growth potential only for the sake of interline and the interline will eventually be terminated.

While similar, based in different city in same country might be more viable. Although since both of them can operate out of same country, nothing really prevent them to jump to grab each other lucrative market. Thus can really see this interline go through for long term.

As a result, in this scenario the interline will be short term, until supply equalize with demand, unless the country demand is so huge like USA, China, etc.

 

2. Interline with airlines in different country, which you don't fly to their hub, but it flies to your hub.

In this scenario, although the other airline tend to be benefited more, for you at least you provide connection option and keep your passenger with your airline rather than flying with your competitor in same country that has better interline agreement collection. Seems like no brainer actually, but maybe there's a situation where you want to keep your interline to be equally mutually beneficial?

 

3. Interline with airlines in neighboring country with small or insignificant domestic market

For this specific scenario, I would use Indonesia and Singapore as example. Indonesia has a huge domestic market, but international connection is somehow limited. On the opposite contrast, Singapore has practically no domestic market but has very good international connection option. Airline in Singapore doesn't really need to interline with airline in Indonesia as given its relative proximity to all Indonesian cities, it can just fly there. Also for airline in Indonesia, they would think if they interline with airline in Singapore, they only act as a generous feeder to their Singaporean counterpart. Given the connection-focused nature of AirlineSim, I think it's better for them ignore each other's interline request and build their own connection network in their respective hub.

 

so what you think?

I will answer (1). Interline in your hub in a big country such as USA, China or Europe can help you both grow your connections. I will copy and paste a message I wrote to one player about hub interlines:

When both partners offer roughly the same service and have roughly same ORS rating, the interline among themselves help to multiply connections. So let's say DEN-MSP->X. I will get demand calculated from DEN-MSP->X1 on my airline, and also DEN-MSP->X2 that will go with interline partner. So I benefit on my inbound segment. I may get some pax on the outbound, and my interline will get somepax on the outbound. On the other hand, an interline partner will feed me in on their inbound (and I will get pax my outbound) and he will have multiple demand combinations calculated on his inbound, and some will travel on my airline on outbound from MSP and some will travel on his airline.

Another factor to consider is that if you have waves at 00, 06, 12, 18 and your interline partner has waves at 03, 09, 15, 21 you can actually scehdule arrival flight even short after your wave leaves, and therefor eyou can take advanatge of both hub waves and scheduling efficinecy. E.g. you arrive at 06.00 but your hub is already leaving at 06.00, plus 1.15 connection time ... but your interline partner has a wave at 09.00 so your pax can continue there. (Yes you will feed to him for his 09.00 flight) but you will have inbound flight into your hub full, plus some pax will also go for your own 12.00 flight. So on the inbound segment you will get pax flying outbound at 09.00 and 12.00, therefore more connecting pax coming int your hub on your inbound flight.

All in all, it nicely multiplies connections and scheduling efficinecy, and therefore the number of passengers you wil get, and the number of flights you can make (maintenance ratio).

This works well in big countries with many possible hub airports (as mentioned, USA/Canada/Europe/China/Japan and possibly Australia), because once you are done with hub 1, you can go ahead and jointly build hub 2, hub 3, etc.

I don't agree with (3).

For your example, it may seem that IL is not necessarily in the beginning. However, when you are running jumbos, like 747, 777 between SIN and CGK, you will need that IL. For my airline, more than half of the passengers on my flights to Singapore are connection passengers. Also, when you have that IL, you can run flights from SIN to transfer impossible airports in Indonesia. In that case, you are providing connection flights for you IL partner in SIN. Because SIN market is more about international flights,  most of the passengers on your connection flights are international passengers. It won't affect your domestic market since domestic passengers will still stay on your domestic network. 

Take a look at Kai Tak serve, you will see how it works. The network between Asia Smile - TJE - Tekong Airways - Aero Southern. All the airlines are helping each other to provide a better network.

First, it depends greatly on the relative size of the airline companies. I have some small airlines and they do not interline with huge airlines at all. It’s simply too expensive (30+ more employees each 900/wk at least), and the benefits are marginal, especially when my load factor is already at a satisfactory level.

For 2, I tend to micro-manage as well, to see if their incoming flights coordinate with my departure waves. Sometimes I was able to find an exact fit (within 2hr connections at both ends). I tend to accept/initiate these kinds of interlining frequently.

Strategically I agree with 3. And for an even more general case, I tend not to interline with airlines in a neighbor country, if both of us have similar size international network. In the real world this has been the case, as larger airlines in neighbour small countries are always competitors and never interline. The examples are BA/AF/Lufthansa, Ethiopian/Kenya, Emirates/Ethihad/Qatar, Singapore/Malaysia/Thai/Garuda Indonesia…

 In the real world this has been the case, as larger airlines in neighbour small countries are always competitors and never interline. The examples are BA/AF/Lufthansa, Ethiopian/Kenya, Emirates/Ethihad/Qatar, Singapore/Malaysia/Thai/Garuda Indonesia...

Actually that's not true and the opposite is true, they all interline

http://www.thaiairways.com/en_TH/Terms_condition/interline_partner.page

What you meant was posisbly they do not code share, but we do not have code shares in AS.

Hi

1/ Interline in same country can be benefit if the hubs and flights of partners are not the same. Example : Jakarta and Bali-Denpasar to provide an access to passengers to the local network of each partner.

If the hub is the same, it can help new airlines to grow and to have more connexions, but it's not really a long term view.

2/ An interline between 2 airlines in different countries with only one exploiting the route to your hub is a benefit for both, as the other airline can provide you passengers. Otherwise, an interline with an airline who has no connexions with your network is a nonsense (example when you have a route from Jakarta to Perth and you sign with an airline of Sydney that has no flight to Perth neither to Jakarta  :))

3/ Interlining with airlines in Singapore or Hong Kong, destinations with NO local market can be an interest when you connect to an airline that can provide you departures to destinations that you don't serve

Have a nice WE !

Thanks for all the insight, let's highlights some interesting points and continue the discussion.

(1). Interline in your hub in a big country such as USA, China or Europe can help you both grow your connections.  It nicely multiplies connections and scheduling efficinecy, and therefore the number of passengers you wil get, and the number of flights you can make. This works well in big countries with many possible hub airports (as mentioned, US/CA/EU/CH/JP/AU), because once you are done with hub 1, you can go ahead and jointly build hub 2, hub 3, etc.

Multiplying connection is indeed mutually beneficial for both airlines. The idea to jointly build next hub is also interesting. But as has been said, this required the airlines to be co-located in countries with high demand, otherwise it might not be suitable.

I don't agree with (3).

For your example, it may seem that IL is not necessarily in the beginning. However, when you are running jumbos, like 747, 777 between SIN and CGK, you will need that IL. For my airline, more than half of the passengers on my flights to Singapore are connection passengers. Also, when you have that IL, you can run flights from SIN to transfer impossible airports in Indonesia. In that case, you are providing connection flights for you IL partner in SIN. Because SIN market is more about international flights,  most of the passengers on your connection flights are international passengers. It won't affect your domestic market since domestic passengers will still stay on your domestic network. 

Take a look at Kai Tak serve, you will see how it works. The network between Asia Smile - TJE - Tekong Airways - Aero Southern. All the airlines are helping each other to provide a better network.

I'm under the impression that running widebodies on short sector is not so efficient in AS due to longer ground time. Also when you said half of your passengers in CGK-SIN sector are connecting passengers, you confirmed that you are actually feeding your neighbor's airline instead of feeding your own direct long haul from Jakarta. Surely your domestic routes are all yours, but the neighbor airline could actually fly to each of your cities, directly picking up passengers and feeding their own long haul in their Singapore hub. I was wondering, would it be better to not interline and develop your own international long haul in Jakarta. While the interline might work in term of multiplying connection, your neighbor get more benefit from the feed while your own international long haul routes are cannibalized. As a side note, your Indonesian transfer impossible airports got nothing to do with this Singapore interline thing, as the passengers connecting thru Singapore and from there, they can fly to any Indonesian airports unrestricted.

1. it depends greatly on the relative size of the airline companies. I have some small airlines and they do not interline with huge airlines at all. It's simply too expensive and the benefits are marginal.

  1. I tend to micro-manage as well, to see if their incoming flights coordinate with my departure waves.

  2. I tend not to interline with airlines in a neighbor country, if both of us have similar size international network. In the real world this has been the case, as larger airlines in neighbour small countries are always competitors and never interline.

1. especially if you are small, you kinda need interline from bigger airline to keep you grow, although chances are slim those big boys wanna play along.

2. agree, otherwise it's useless

3. agree on AS, but in real life, they do interline as big countries with large domestic market usually don't open all their airports for international traffic.

Hi

1/ Interline in same country can be benefit if the hubs and flights of partners are not the same. Example : Jakarta and Bali-Denpasar to provide an access to passengers to the local network of each partner. If the hub is the same, it can help new airlines to grow and to have more connexions, but it's not really a long term view.

2/ An interline between 2 airlines in different countries with only one exploiting the route to your hub is a benefit for both, as the other airline can provide you passengers. Otherwise, an interline with an airline who has no connexions with your network is a nonsense (example when you have a route from Jakarta to Perth and you sign with an airline of Sydney that has no flight to Perth neither to Jakarta  :))

3/ Interlining with airlines in Singapore or Hong Kong, destinations with NO local market can be an interest when you connect to an airline that can provide you departures to destinations that you don't serve

Have a nice WE !

1. why you say access, when both airline have unrestricted access to same local market as they are located in same country. would rather say the benefit similar to previous post, multiplying connection, and also not for long term.

2. how about this, consider ultra long haul LHR-SYD. Airlines A based in LHR, fly LHR-DXB. Airline B based in DXB, fly DXB-SIN. Airline C based in SYD, fly SYD-SIN. Suppose C wanna fly to SYD but its own metal is better utilized on other route. If C only interline with B, and B doesn't fly DXB-LHR, then C can't provide its passengers access to LHR. However if C and A interline, both also interline with B, although A doesn't fly to SYD and C doesn't fly to LHR, C can offer connection to LHR and A can offer connection to SYD, thanks to B. :D 

3. in case for airline in Indonesia, imo, interlining with HKG based airline is much preferred than SIN. While both have good internation connection and no domestic market, HKG farther distance from CGK and the rest of Indonesian airports will encourage HKG airlines to use CGK as connecting point rather than flying direct to all Indonesian airports.

Anyone else have thoughts?

Your post is slightly confusing.

Airline A does not need to interline with airline C in order for A to send passengers to C via airline B. All that is needed is that A interline with B and B interlines with C. Then, passengers can travel A to B to C.

If airline A interlines with airline C but not B, then there is no way for airline A to send passengers to airline C through airline B, even if C interlined with B itself.

There must be a chain of interlines in place, you cannot just interline on rear ends of the journey.

I'm under the impression that running widebodies on short sector is not so efficient in AS due to longer ground time. Also when you said half of your passengers in CGK-SIN sector are connecting passengers, you confirmed that you are actually feeding your neighbor's airline instead of feeding your own direct long haul from Jakarta. Surely your domestic routes are all yours, but the neighbor airline could actually fly to each of your cities, directly picking up passengers and feeding their own long haul in their Singapore hub. I was wondering, would it be better to not interline and develop your own international long haul in Jakarta. While the interline might work in term of multiplying connection, your neighbor get more benefit from the feed while your own international long haul routes are cannibalized. As a side note, your Indonesian transfer impossible airports got nothing to do with this Singapore interline thing, as the passengers connecting thru Singapore and from there, they can fly to any Indonesian airports unrestricted.

I will say for Indonesia case only, it will be better to just feed my Singapore partner networks. The international market for the Indonesian market is really bad, it's would be hard for me to compete with airlines in Singapore. The wave system can make connection flight better, but if passengers get on your plane only for connection, other airlines can also do that. You will lose passengers when an airline next to you is doing the same thing. Separated network will only make the competition worse. I believe the reason for all southeast Asia on Kai Tak serve are running pretty well at this point is because of the cooperation. Everyone has the benefit. I still have lots of long flight with full passengers. I 'm running international flights for my local costumes; airline in Singapore is more about international connections (of course, it's the only thing airline in Singapore can do). Feeding his network makes both of our lives easier. If you are building airlines only to compete other airlines and make them bankrupt, what's the fun for the game? :)

When 2 indonesian airlines speek together...  :wub: