New player - How to evaluate passenger demand?

Ok, thank’s for your reply. I guess I am slowly understanding how this sim is working. Completely different from my past experience, beeing in “real-time” and not “game-time” makes it quite challenging in the beginning at least.
I think investigating demand is one of the most cruicial aspects of starting a new airline but if it is like you say, more like “trial and error” I don’t think this is a game sim for me. I want facts before I start risking my money.
When I worked in Singapore in the 1980’s we did a market survey with all the Swedish companies there and got a very positive response. All of them were longing for a small “taxi-flight-company” so we were planning to start with a long range Lear Jet. Of course we would never know what our “Load factor” would be anyway but at least we had a hint of the demand :relaxed:
I know, starting an airline is one of the most difficult and risky things you can do in the world and obviously even in the virtual one.
I have made a reset now and started all over. Won a bid for a CRJ-700 NG on lease and have scheduled it GOT-BLQ (Gothenburg-Bologna) one round trip a day. I could not see any other flights between GOT-BLQ so I hope I will get my first plane filled. Still waiting for transfer flight from Toronto though :smirk:

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As mentioned,I did a “reset” and went for a CRJ700 NG, scheduled GOT-BLQ (Bologna) i roundtrip/day/7days/wk. Bookings Y20%/C25% so far, but one more day until departure. We’ll see what happens :roll_eyes:

Only one flight return? That is efficient use of the CR7? Surely you can squeeze more in…

And even then - if you only fly one trip a day on a plane, that is only gonna be 14 flights a week that have to cover that entire lease payment. Even when a flight is full, on small planes this can be an issue.

No, I am just watching bookings and have added another route later , GOT-FCO (Rome). It looks promising so far, at least Y38/C50% for BLQ and Y25/C50% for FCO bookings so far. I am afraid to set up more routes before I know what the outcome will be… Will the bookings increase with time as my routes are more established? You see, I have no idea of how this Sim works… :roll_eyes:

Trying some routes for a couple of days to test demand wouldn’t cost you endless amounts of money. :wink:
And as jetcruise already said the demand is more or less (sometimes less than less ^^) oriented to reality, so this can help you.

Connections are booked once per day. Passengers originating at X airport book at a certain time for their entire itinerary, including second-third legs. In the world I play in mainly, Limatambo, GOT books at 18:08 LT (see below). This time will change in every world and every airport.


What this means is that if I am a pax from Gothenburg flying nonstop to FCO, or from Gothenburg to FCO and onward to, say, Malta, I book at the Gothenburg time. But if I am a pax from Bergen wanting to go to FCO via your GOT-FCO leg, I book at Bergen time.

The pax wanting to take itinerary A book in the order of the Online Reservation System (ORS)'s hierarchy. This takes into account segments up to 3 legs, and is based on the desirability of the legs of the journey and as part of the wider itinerary. You can check the ORS’s rating for an itinerary per class by going to Database → ORS.

A couple of things to note.

  • The ORS books in a proportional way. So it will not be 100% going to the first, then after all seats are taken, it will go to the second, etc. It goes a proportional way booking a certain % before moving on, though the numbers no one is truly sure about.
  • There is a main difference here to note between the Old ORS and the new ORS. The main difference between these two server styles is the weighting of factors in this booking system, which as it is the “heart and soul” of the game produces differences in playstyle between the styles. To grossly oversimplify, the old ORS prioritizes luxury at any cost whereas the new ORS prioritizes more ‘value for money’. There’s a lot more details on this available floating in this forum.

For a specific route, things to note.

  • A nonstop is always more desirable than a multi-stop (as you can imagine) - though a multistop, made appealing, can and sometimes does trump a nonstop in the ratings.
  • Service matters but so does price. When you change either keep in mind you’ll also affect the ratings of not just the nonstop, but also for any connecting itineraries.
  • You can check how many pax are connecting for a specific flight (on a specific day) by heading to multiple places: Load Monitoring tab, a plane’s Flights tab, Inventory. Since it does change every day, the amount of pax connecting does fluctuate.
  • The ORS extends the main benefit of interlines - pax can book the flights in one itinerary between your airline and a partner airline or even three airlines. This can help book since it will mean your flight is not only in the GOT - FCO ORS ratings, but also the for ex. ARN - FCO, GOT - MLA, and ARN - MLA (if you have an airline connecting ARN - GOT and another airline doing FCO - MLA). So pax can take the same flight, that GOT - FCO, but for multiple purposes, so you have more chances of being high in ratings for at least some of those itineraries. If that makes sense. I believe the main term used to describe it is the network effect, and its a multiplier effect, it grows when your network grows. The main way to capitalize on this is through waved departures, to ensure small layover times, which in turn increases desirability of multi stop options through your hub.

I can guide you to further resources:

  • The Handbook (handbook.airlinesim.aero) is the official tutorial and is newly revamped.
  • There’s crowd-done tutorials such as Yukawa’s, and Matth’s. Though keep in mind some of these are older, so be wary, particularly on the ORS parts.
  • Youtube: Pinto’s series is one of the best (even if it’s done on a private world) but there is others, such as Dashsolpher.

A non specific AS resource is Wendover Productions, whom does great work on the actual airline business. It is not AS specific but the concepts resonate well.
Economics of Airline Class
How airlines decide how to fly
How airlines schedule flights

Hope that helps :slight_smile:

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Well, as I know you know, your safety net and fall back capacity is way bigger than OP. :laughing: Though I can advise OP to reset if he feels necessary to get a fresh start.

Yes, thank you. Now I think I am getting to understand it a bit more :grin: Interesting that I can do a few days testing without going into bankrupcy. :nerd_face:

Oh, this sounds even more complex than I could imagine! :laughing: But thank you very much, this will be a good source of knowledge for me :+1:
I made a few changes here, Revised the first departure time from 07:00 to 05:00 UTC and managed to squeeze in GOT-BLQ, GOT-FCO and also a late GOT-BMA (Stockholm Bromma). To my surprise, the BMA return flight was early booked 100% even with my first late schedule departure 21:10 UTC!
I guess the revised departure times will not show up until a few days?


I think it doesn’t look so bad? :face_with_monocle:
I did make a not-so scientific preliminary “Brake-even-calculation” before I started and saw that I would need Y=43(64) and C=4(8) to break even on the GOT-BLQ route. Now, when I have 3 routes, I had to revise my calculations… Maybe the added routes will change the overall figures. In reality, the leasing and staff cost would be spread out on my 3 routes instead of one, so I had to make a new calc, without fuel&cargo aspects, right now,based on bookings only:

p.s How does “red-eye-flights” work here? I mean night-flights on short routes. I know it could work on longer routes, but who wants to take a flight BMA-GOT after midnight? Apparently 64 persons liked that departure at 00:40! :flushed:d.s

The time of the flights has no impact at all. Maybe it gets changed with ASTD but who knows.

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Ok, thanks! I am still so much into the other Sim where flights departing between 23:00-05:00 were doomed! This is better :wink:

Old tutorials from Alfapiomega are also a valuable resource on route planning, interlining, passenger demand, ORS etc. Just discard the part that is no longer applicable in user interface. But the game mechanics regarding what you need (what route to fly) is well covered even though the tutorials are up to 10 years old.

Airlinesim 2012 tutorials playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL999FE6D0B80E5ADD

Airlinesim 2013 tutorials playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpVUxdiS7yw9S42dkc3ZNLwNK_AZ4IRRt

Airlinesim 2014 tutorials playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpVUxdiS7yw8inNjRSmdp9mBRleh36qGB

Airlinesim 2015-2016 tutorials playlist with switchover to new intrerface halfway
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpVUxdiS7yw_JfoTuXbTyJKeFJx3ldvnk

Airlinesim 2015 tutorials update

Airlinesim for begInners, first learning lesson:
repeat 5 times loud please: “Other sims do not exist and I will forget about them.” :crazy_face:

seriously: Airlinesim has its own peculiarities and is sometimes unexpectedly different from other sims, so don’t expext stuff from other sims working here and the opposite. :wink:

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Oh, thank you! Will study them all :smiley: :+1:

Ok, Roger that, message recieved :rofl: I will never mention “it” again!
Yes, I am beginning to see the huge difference now and I admit that I like this! It feels more “realistic” and even if it takes days in real time to see what happens after a change, it is kind of cool to wait for a result…
I am “hooked” already! :relaxed:

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Glad you are “hooked” - this game is subconsciously addictive :slight_smile:

Yes indeed! Think I am slowly getting into the green figures here… :sunglasses: :+1:

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Hi fellow Swede!

Starting routes in AirlineSim can be fairly challenging. The rule of thumb as a beginner is usually to “grow outwards”. Start with your domestic market and expand outwards from there. AirlineSim as a game is all about connections, therefore good scheduling is very important. Give passengers swift options to connect and they will come. You will never be able to fill a Bologna flight from GOT all by itself. But if you connect 10 Scandinavian destinations then you might have the feed to fill that flight.

I also started my first AS airline in GOT and the local Scandinavian market had pretty good demand. I used those connections to expand to the larger European gateways and later on go long haul.

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Cheers Swede! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: Thank you for reply.
I can see you are right about that GOT-Bologna route and now I realize what you are saying. The best routes are definitely GOT-BMA and GOT-ARL which I guess I should have started with. I did not understand that you have to make a kind of “feed-map” here with arrival and departure times?
This is a whole new dimension for me as I am used to “the other Sim” where supply is constant.
So, now I will have to work on this a bit better and one question I have: Will it be negative for my “Image” if I close down the Bologna route for example? Or maybe keep it and "feed it " as you say? :sunglasses:

The image of a particular flight is determined by other factors, not when and where you fly.
Namely, how you do on these for that route:
image

You can check how your flights do on these by going to each individual flight’s page and then clicking on the Flight Rating tab. You can find the flight pages on an aircraft’s “flights” tab (under Fleet Management), or in tabs such as Load Monitoring or Inventory.

The overall image is a rolling combination of the individual flight images plus a few other factors.

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