The cabin tool has provoed some criticism, especially concerning the number of seats per row. I have analyzed the current situation, and make a proposal for a revised scheme.
Current scheme
(after modification of A330 and B767)
The upper part shows the number of seat per row. Based on cabin width, I have calculated seat and aisle width, you find those figures on the right (all blue numbers are given in Inch). The lower part shows the efficiency of room utilization. The colors are just for orientation.
My proposal:
The same tables once again with my proposal for a modified scheme.
What´s the use of it?
More realistic Economy formations: e.g for B777 10-abreast up to Leisure Plus, 9-abreast for Comfort and Recliner Shorthaul
The modern types of Widebody Aircraft with their different fuselage width are treated more equally, none has considerable advantages or disadvantages.
Types with wider fuselage have a benefit: E-Jet vs. CRJ; B777 vs. B787.
More diversity for different seat types: Lie-Flat 160 (wider and shorter) vs. Full Bed (narrower and longer), or different width of the suites
As the colors indicate, there continue to be more or less efficient formations, on the whole it wont get "better". But the dust gets spread more evenly instead of being piled up on some types.
This is of course just my personal suggestion (which has provoked fierce discussion in the german forum…). What do you think about it? If you want to have your own try, feel free to download the file and modify it. (created with OpenOffice; i´m not shure how it works with MS Excel)
Geez, can’t we just give it a rest already? The new seats are here, everyone needs to adapt to it and there will always be winners and losers, no matter what you do.
Geez, can't we just give it a rest already? The new seats are here, everyone needs to adapt to it and there will always be winners and losers, no matter what you do.
Deal with it.
dito ... everyone uses the same seats, have the same problems ... others worked out how to deal with the new situation and dont cry around like little kids that want a candy bar.
I certainly agree that there is far to little variation around the Business class seats. With Comfort Plus seats (Eco plus/budget Business) starting at 22.8 width being almost the same as the 23.5 width of a full bed seat (Luxury Business). Most A/C will fit the same amount of these in width and the length being the only thing setting them apart.
So what I would love to see are some wider Business class seats that are angled inwards in pairs. This is in use almost everywhere in real airlines and means you get 2+2+2 in wide or 2+2 in narrow (around 25-28 width). As you can see this area of seat width also has a huge gap between 23.5 - 30 in the current layout that does exist in reality:
Geez, can't we just give it a rest already? The new seats are here, everyone needs to adapt to it and there will always be winners and losers, no matter what you do.
Deal with it.
Do you seriously think the AS team does not plan to ever change these numbers as they get feedback from users and can monitor how profitable certain aircrafts are? Just like anything this is something that can and will be tweaked later on and to get good result they need good feedback.
dito ... everyone uses the same seats, have the same problems ... others worked out how to deal with the new situation and dont cry around like little kids that want a candy bar.
That´s not the point. It´s about realism! Okay, you said that realism has no meaning for you. But for others it definitely has.
The Boeing 777 is one of the most successful types in the real world. In AS, with it´s too narrow cabin, it is not economical any more. I personally can easily substitute them by A330, thanks to my leased fleet (and I´m going to do so!). The intention of my proposal is to give the different aircraft types similar chances as in reality. The question is wether we need that.
And, by the way: If the game developpers don´t do changes, players complain about a boring game. If they do too many changes, players complain about too much work for adaptation. If they do their changes balanced and reasonably, both groups will be complaining ;)
dito ... everyone uses the same seats, have the same problems ... others worked out how to deal with the new situation and dont cry around like little kids that want a candy bar.
That would be true if the old seats were banned from being used, but since that's not the case... I can't seem to find a way to compete with airlines with old seats.
That´s not the point. It´s about realism! Okay, you said that realism has no meaning for you. But for others it definitely has.
The "others" are not 99% of the players here, there are the same number of players, who dont care about 100% realism. We have nice new seats, that add more realism to the game. Thats great. But dont cry about some centimenters more or less.
The Boeing 777 is one of the most successful types in the real world. In AS, with it´s too narrow cabin, it is not economical any more. I personally can easily substitute them by A330, thanks to my leased fleet (and I´m going to do so!). The intention of my proposal is to give the different aircraft types similar chances as in reality. The question is wether we need that.
It is still economical. Dont tell shit. Whats about buying it? No? Then you have to replace it. You can copy the real world here, there will be some inadequacy.
And, by the way: If the game developpers don´t do changes, players complain about a boring game. If they do too many changes, players complain about too much work for adaptation. If they do their changes balanced and reasonably, both groups will be complaining
It is about the seesaw here. They release a patch, with new seats. Now a handfull of players cry around and want changes again. Then the next handfull come around the corner and want changes again. The team should test a patch before they release it. Your proposal makes some new cabin configs unfit. Only because you and some of your friends think some centimetrs are missing for your image of realism.
"Other" players want to play a game and have fun with it. When the team change the seats again, "others" have to remoddel things again.
That would be true if the old seats were banned from being used, but since that's not the case... I can't seem to find a way to compete with airlines with old seats.
I have changed most of my cabin configurations and all my profits raised. Even my small moldovian airline is profitable now. You can compete with the new seats. Because you cant make profit, it does not mean it is not possible. Dont generalize your results. Maybe you shoult rethink something?
Add a new functionality allowing us to angle seats (making them wider and shorter).
That will not force anyone to change any cabin layouts, but will allow players more options to fit business class seats (especially in Embaer, B777 and 380 upper level that are currently penalized as can be seen).
Functionality like this:
You select a custom angle that makes your seat wider (and shorter according to a sin formula). The seats are still squared but you can now tweak them to fill cabins better like real airlines can (for an added extra investment cost).
I have changed most of my cabin configurations and all my profits raised. Even my small moldovian airline is profitable now. You can compete with the new seats. Because you cant make profit, it does not mean it is not possible. Dont generalize your results. Maybe you shoult rethink something?
Well, I'm not alone on this. If I change the cabin to have comfort/Lie-flat on my CRJs to keep the ORS ratings as I had with the old seats, I have a lot less capacity, and I can't rise prices, so I'm competing but losing money. If I use smaller seats (which would be logical, since most of my routes are 1500 km or less), my ORS rating suffers and I have to lower prices, losing money again.
Let me know what I should do...
In the meantime, this is the destiny of my 3 companies on Gatow: One of them is going bankrupt in the next 2 or 3 weeks. The other one, which I just bought and invested a lot of time and work in making profitable, is not making any money (not losing either at least). And my main airline, #1 in Argentina got its profits down from 3,5M to 700k and even less tomorrow when this week closes.
If everyone was using the new seats this would be a non-issue, but since most of my competitors are keeping their old seats, I can do nothing, since I'm not allowed to go back to my old seats (and I don't want to, since I like the new cabin editor, I'd like for everyone to have a deadline to change to the new seats!)
Regardless of the outcome, thank you for doing the work and posting this information Fluggast. It is a good outline for choosing aircraft types for seat combinations (I now know immediately where I would put luxury suits on an A380).
As for those of you saying you don't care as much about "realism" please note that the site is called "Airlinesim". As a simulator realism is a primary goal. I would strongly advise looking elsewhere if you want something specifically to NOT be realistic. It is contrary to the entire point of this site, other than to have fun of course. Obviously being browser based it has its limitations but there is nothing to be done about that.
As far as the seat revisions go I can't disagree with your suggestions. As brought up before it would be interesting to see an adjustable "Seat Width" option with an associated ORS rating change.
What I would really like to see is someone on the AS team say why and how they chose specific widths/ratings. It would make debating this topic much easier.
Well, I'm not alone on this. If I change the cabin to have comfort/Lie-flat on my CRJs to keep the ORS ratings as I had with the old seats, I have a lot less capacity, and I can't rise prices, so I'm competing but losing money. If I use smaller seats (which would be logical, since most of my routes are 1500 km or less), my ORS rating suffers and I have to lower prices, losing money again.
Let me know what I should do…
In the meantime, this is the destiny of my 3 companies on Gatow: One of them is going bankrupt in the next 2 or 3 weeks. The other one, which I just bought and invested a lot of time and work in making profitable, is not making any money (not losing either at least). And my main airline, #1 in Argentina got its profits down from 3,5M to 700k and even less tomorrow when this week closes.
If everyone was using the new seats this would be a non-issue, but since most of my competitors are keeping their old seats, I can do nothing, since I’m not allowed to go back to my old seats (and I don’t want to, since I like the new cabin editor, I’d like for everyone to have a deadline to change to the new seats!)
Example: my CRJ 900 have a Y44 and C9 configuration. Fully booked on GUM - PVG I have a 19% margin. The price for a Y seat is 75 AS$ above Standard. With better seats, you can Charge higher prices without negative effect on competition. Even on US Domestic flights i can Charge higher prices, also on short routes. This Works for my Airline in Paraguay and Laos as well. I think some People Heer are to fixed to realism. So they have no eyes for new concepts. And copy the real World is uncreative. These guys should play with a model railway.
Example: my CRJ 900 have a Y44 and C9 configuration. Fully booked on GUM - PVG I have a 19% margin. The price for a Y seat is 75 AS$ above Standard. With better seats, you can Charge higher prices without negative effect on competition. Even on US Domestic flights i can Charge higher prices, also on short routes. This Works for my Airline in Paraguay and Laos as well. I think some People Heer are to fixed to realism. So they have no eyes for new concepts. And copy the real World is uncreative. These guys should play with a model railway.
Well, my CRJs have very similar configuration, and funny, I'm also based in Paraguay. But cannot get above 80% SLF with prices below standard and thus losing money. Maybe your competitors switched to the new seats and that's why you're being successful, my competitors are still using the old seats, so I cannot compete with them.
