Hi,
I checked how my old seats were doing on the ORS. It was a bad surprise to see that my ORS ratings had plummetted from 99 to 59 or 61. I thought I would have to quickly change all my cabin configurations.
But strangely enough all my new flights (scheduled for friday afternoon or later) have their old ratings back... even though they still have the old seats installed.
What has happened ?
Jan
Hi Jan
I'm noticing the same thing, I'm not sure what happened.
My airline runs almost completely on connecting flights, and the original drop was much greater than I expected having done some testing on Aspern. Then the new flights from Friday appear to have better connecting ratings than they ever had before the change - this is not my experience on Aspern at all.
I'd like some reassurance before I go changing all my cabin configurations that things are settled.
David
Let's try again...
Hi,
I checked how my old seats were doing on the ORS. It was a bad surprise to see that my ORS ratings had plummetted from 99 to 59 or 61. I thought I would have to quickly change all my cabin configurations.
What has happened ?
Jan
But you installed the new ones?
Hi Sascha,
when I saw the low ORS ratings of my old seatings (and the bad image ratings), I immediately started changing my seats.
But later on the ORS ratings went up again, even for the planes who still had old seats. Later on it appeared that my old ecoplus and business premium seats still had excellent ORS ratings. It is hard to tell now because I did not write everything down, but after the sudden drop in the ORS ratings my old seats may even have had a better product rating. But obviously the overall rating just went back to 99.
Anyway, it was the product ratings - the basic ORS rating - that had dropped. Apparently for every airline. Product ratings dropped so much that the ORS tool only showed connecting flights on the first pages.
Somebody must have tweaked the system. And it wasn't me ;-)
Jan
I can tell you, I've observed the same ORS behaviour, but have not yet changed the seats on most of my planes: The ratings for the old seatings have indeed suddenly improved! (Strangely, even the rating for "price" has gone up from 2 to 4 green bars - without me changing seats, price or anything). I have posted these points in the German section and sent an e-mail to AS support.
Hi,
I guess that has to do with fitting in the old seats into the new system. If you used ecoplus seats, they should get a higher rating than the new comfort seats because they are bigger. I hope you know what I mean.
What I don't understand is that the ratings first dropped. My flights had 99 (ORS) ratings. When I checked tuesday evening, my flights had overall ORS ratings around 60. Not only my flights. When I checked the ORS tool, I only saw connecting flights on the first few pages. To me that seems like everybody suddenly received product ratings between 40 and 50. As a result, connecting flights received higher overall ratings than direct flights.
And then, the next day, all ratings were back to normal. And as you confirm, they were even higher than before.
I only wondered what happened :-)
Jan
If it helps from the time of the update on 17/12 until around Wednesday lunchtime, flights that had always held ORS ratings of between 95-98 went down to between 60-65.
This changed around Wednesday lunchtime with all new flights receiving an ORS score of 99 (they had never been this high before). This is all on planes that had EcoPlus seating throughout and no new cabins.
So for around 24 hours there was a massive drop in ORS scores. This has hurt my airline which depends almost exclusively on connecting flights. Now some connecting flights had a negative ORS score, which they had never had before. As a consequence my takings for that period are down around 30-40%.
So I would like to know what happened too. :)
Without being able to provide a definite analysis, my guess would be that it somehow related to a mix of old configs, new configs, old flights and new flights. So I'd assume that everything balances out by the end of the week. If things like this still occur after the week-end there might be a problem.
If it helps from the time of the update on 17/12 until around Wednesday lunchtime, flights that had always held ORS ratings of between 95-98 went down to between 60-65.
This changed around Wednesday lunchtime with all new flights receiving an ORS score of 99 (they had never been this high before). This is all on planes that had EcoPlus seating throughout and no new cabins.
Hi,
I noticed the drop tuesday evening and then decided to quickly change my seats. The next day everything was back to normal. And the flights with my old ecoplus seats had product rating of 89 (a product rating of 60 can be enough to get an overall rating of 99).
It is probably what Martin wrote... a conflict/mix of old and new values in the rating system.
Since then ratings seem to behave normally, and my planes fill up again.
Jan
i have some booked flights but they dont appear on the ORS.. anyone know what is happen!?
Hi,
if the flight just appeared on the flight list, you will wait until it has landed. Well, three days before it has landed :-)
If it has been on the flight list for a longer period, the rating may be too low.
Jan
My old seat configs are getting 99 rating (Fornebu)
I changed my 733 and 734 fleet but forgot to change M87 fleet...I spent over 3 million on new seats (on top of refunds) and they have lower rating than old seats.
For Sun 22/12 (meaning booking entered way after Dec17 seat config change), CGH-NAT, AM 342, 20-year old M87.
Seat Economy:
onboard: 5 star
99 ORS
Then a 734 GRU GIG was 97, new seat config (leisure) which was more expensive than Economy old config, ORS 83.
Also for example; GRU-NAT, 733 with Economy seat, 5 star onboard: ORS is 99. Same 733 after seat change, Leisure (more expensive than Economy), 5 star onboard, ORS is 83.
This is NOT good... people will have no desire to change old configs after the word spreads out.
Exactly. If you were using standard seats before, you have to change to Comfort seats to keep your ratings. At first I thought Leisure Plus would be comparable to the old Standard seats, but there is a big rating gap between Leisure Plus and Comfort. At least in theory, this is not necessarily bad - airlines will have to offer more to get an excellent rating. But in competition with the old seat configs still active, there is absolutely no incentive for the new ones. (Might be different if you have old Economy Plus seats).
That's right, to get same 99 in Economy you would need Comfort Plus seats. Same 99 can be achieved in old config with regular Economy seat and 5 star onboard service. With comfort Plus you do not even have to offer any onboard service and you get 99.
Economy seat cost about 600 AS$, Comfort Plus costs $1100. I could put 27% more Economy seats than Comfort Plus seats. So to have same 99 rating in Y as a competitor who has not changed from old config (e.g. Economy seat) I need to provide 27% bigger seats. So where is the claim by AS that the old seats will ave substantially lower rating? As it stands right now, old seats have BETTER rating than comparable new seats, and to get the same rating as old seats you need to use BIGGER NEW seats, reducing your revenue (bigger seats = less pax @ same rate your new config and competitor's old config).
Another thing is that comfort and comfort plus seats in narrowbody are 3+2 seating. I have never seen airline that uses 3+2 seating on A320 or B737 in economy. So You have to use 3+2 seating to get 99 in Economy in order to compete to regular Economy seats from old config (3+3 seating).
Again, another thing that was not tested well by AS before releasing live.
Only solution would be to somehow force everybody to change seat configs. Poeple will just keep using old configs for as long as their ORS stays the same high mark.
...
So where is the claim by AS that the old seats will ave substantially lower rating?
Hi,
if I remember well the message was that new business class/first class seats were gonna be much bigger. And as rating is related to size, the old business and first class seats would have a much lower rating in the new system. But if you used ecoplus in economy, your old economy seats will still get a high rating. The message was that some configurations would get a much lower rating, and that some would get a higher rating.
Jan
But how is it possible, Jan, that a seat that costs almost 2x more and occupied 27% more space (Comfort Plus vs Economy) in Economy cabin, both get the same rating? This is not just. Both Economy and Business old config seats should get different ratings. Come on people can run on old economy config for ages because they already have 99 rating. You did not need to use Ecoplus in economy to get 99 rating, a regular economy seat combined with 5 star onboard service gave you 99 in ORS.**
** I did my research for seats/service/distance combination for both Y and C class, on both old and new config, and I have the data. So I know what I am talking about. You cannot reach 99 in Economy without comfort plus seat, even with 5 star onboard service in comfort you would only get as high as 93 or 94 in ORS. But you can have old basic economy seat that used to cost AS$600 and 5 star onboard service and you are in ORS with 99. THIS is NOT the way t should be!
the pitch between seats also afect the rating right?
But how is it possible, Jan, that a seat that costs almost 2x more and occupied 27% more space (Comfort Plus vs Economy) in Economy cabin, both get the same rating?
Hi,
that is a question I cannot answer :-)
However, it does not bother me. Even die-hards who promise to stick to their cabin lay-out, will have to use the new seats when they lease a new plane.
You did not need to use Ecoplus in economy to get 99 rating, a regular economy seat combined with 5 star onboard service gave you 99 in ORS.**
Any seat can give you a 99 ORS rating, and any seat can give you a 59 ORS rating. Lower the price, and your rating will go up. Raise the price, and your rating will go down. The only difference is that a standard seat gave a 99 rating when you sold tickets at default price, and a ecoplus seat gave still gave you a 99 rating if you sold the tickets at default plus 35%.
Take an ecoplus seat, offer 5 star on-board service and sell your tickets for default plus 50%... your rating won't be 99 anymore ;-)
** I did my research for seats/service/distance combination for both Y and C class, on both old and new config, and I have the data. So I know what I am talking about. You cannot reach 99 in Economy without comfort plus seat, even with 5 star onboard service in comfort you would only get as high as 93 or 94 in ORS.
Euh... have you tried lowering the ticket price ?
Jan
However, it does not bother me. Even die-hards who promise to stick to their cabin lay-out, will have to use the new seats when they lease a new plane.
But in the meantime they can run 1000+ planes with old config...what difference does couple of planes make if they still have hundreds, or thousands, of planes with old config?
Any seat can give you a 99 ORS rating, and any seat can give you a 59 ORS rating. Lower the price, and your rating will go up. Raise the price, and your rating will go down. The only difference is that a standard seat gave a 99 rating when you sold tickets at default price, and a ecoplus seat gave still gave you a 99 rating if you sold the tickets at default plus 35%.
Yes I know this. I am talking about comparing red apples with green apples and not with pears :) what I mean is that my comparison was made at default price, and considered different seating options, always with at least one green bar for FA and at least one green bar for seat pitch.
I have also ran my price increase/decrease comparison so I have pretty good idea how much the increase percentage-wise (and decrease) affect the ORS rating for the flight for all relevant (narrow-body) configs.