Variable Turnaround times

Well, the title says it all. Can we have variable turnaround times at the cost of plane condition and / or image points ? 

Sometimes it's very bothering when I cant fit a flight between my HUB waves because of some 5 minutes or so. In those cases I'd be happy to take a hit on plane condition or image points.

Is there also a chance we can have turnaround times for wide bodies depending on the length / distance of the flight? I'm no expert in this but I simply assume domestic flights of 787/A330/767 have also less turnaround times in reality right?

although this would be nice - and has been requested/suggested multiple times - the current coding does not allow for it. however, on the midterm planing list, I believe it to be an iteam. but the midterm planing list is something for next year, maybe. whenever there is a new system of calculating flight times, etc.

Is there also a chance we can have turnaround times for wide bodies depending on the length / distance of the flight? I'm no expert in this but I simply assume domestic flights of 787/A330/767 have also less turnaround times in reality right?

I'm not an expert either, but I would think that the main reason it takes longer for turnaround is the amount of cargo and passengers on the flight. For a flight with 300 people, plus their baggage and the cargo the plane is carrying, there would probably be quite a long time for unloading and re-loading of passengers and their luggage.

What could be interesting is a turnaround time based on the amount of cargo/passengers the airplane is set to carry. So if you had, for instance, a 737-700 with 140 seats and one with 110 seats, it would take less time to load/reload the 110 seat aircraft. I have a feeling this would be harder to code in, but may be closer to reality (though I am no expert by any means).

Well, in reality it depends on the level of service you are offering (obviously, you have to load catering supplies, clean the cabin and so on before you can start boarding). So you can save some time by having the aircraft cleaned by the cabin crew, but usually this results in a not so clean cabin(=>would result in a worse flight rating in AS) because they don't have vacuum cleaners etc that are availible to the dedicated cleaning personal. You can also save a lot time by streamlining your operations(better training for personal etc.), this could be implemented by increasing the costs for the turnaround. An other possibility to save (a little, not much) time is by fuel tankering. Usually it is done to reduce fuel costs, but as a side effect you can also save 3 or 5 minutes (while it is possible to refuel with passengers on board or during boarding/deboarding it is not a standart procedure, because many precautions have to be taken for these cases).

refuel

According to Boeing this is the longest thing to do during turnaround. Especially on shorthaul Widebody flights this should take considerably less time.

Source: (starting Page 52)

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/787.pdf

They say it takes typically 41 minutes to do a turnaround of a 787. (274 Passengers, 1 Door)

Specs for a 747-8I: (typical 108 minutes and between 50 and 98 minutes for a 747-8F)

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/7478sec5.pdf

Here you can find an overview of all plane types: (It's usually Section 5 from what I've seen)

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/airports/plan_manuals.page

Nice links... but I think the times are a "bit" unrealistic.

e.g. I am looking here at 737, http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/737sec5.pdf page 15

it says 3 minutes for deplaning passengers. I would really love to see a 737 that gets empty within 3 minutes after arriving to its parking position.

With the right motivation 3 minutes can be seen as generous :wink:

On a serious note 189 pax usually takes 5 mins. I’d imagine a -600 in a non- high density config 3mins would be fine

At AMS we do F70/E190 in 35 minutes turn around, B737-700 also 35 minutes, -800 in 40 minutes and -900 in 45 minutes.

The thing is that AS doesn’t seem to take into account that a big part of line maintainance at the hub is done during this turn around.

but I think the times are a "bit" unrealistic.

You need to look closer it's specified below how many PAX etc.

A bit lower they specify: unloading 18 PAX per minute and loading 12 PAX per minute. (for a 737)

However, with an average 41 minutes turnaround for a 787 according to Boeing the in-game 105 minutes on large airports seems waaaay over the top. Same for 747  (Boeing:108 minutes, In-Game, 165 min).....

Airbus can be found here:

http://www.airbus.com/support/maintenance-engineering/technical-data/aircraft-characteristics/

Just search for "terminal servicing" in the PDFs

Embraer 195: 

http://www.embraercommercialaviation.com/AMPS/APM_195.pdf  (Page 65)

This is all so short. Why do we have these huge turnaround times in-game?

@ AS-Team,

do you know these tables?

Yep, but this are purely the time between on-block and off-block. In "real life" there is more - taxiing etc. We have a team meeting coming up and afterwards we may tell more about if there will be changes in the turn-arround times or not.

According to Boeing this is the longest thing to do during turnaround.

Yes, but you can do everything (loading/unloading, cleaning, loading catering supplies etc.) except boarding/deboarding passengers while refueling...for the A320 refuelling takes up to around 25 minutes(including attaching/detaching the fueling nozzle- fueling can also take a lot less if the amount of fuel is not so much - so for a domestic flight a 30 minutes turnaround is well possible, many airlines schedule these also on large airports).

Yep, but this are purely the time between on-block and off-block. In "real life" there is more - taxiing etc. We have a team meeting coming up and afterwards we may tell more about if there will be changes in the turn-arround times or not.

Hi,

if the taxiing etcetera is included in the turnaround time... then why has every flight an extra 25 minutes flight time ?

Jan

Hi,

if the taxiing etcetera is included in the turnaround time... then why has every flight an extra 25 minutes flight time ?

Jan

I wanted to ask this too. I thought those extra 25min are for everything from off-block to departure / landing to on-block.and a little bit slower movement towards the destination for climbing to FL.

Yep, but this are purely the time between on-block and off-block. In "real life" there is more - taxiing etc. We have a team meeting coming up and afterwards we may tell more about if there will be changes in the turn-arround times or not.

Considering what Jan said, this should be covered right?

If you know these sheets from Boeing etc. why does a 747-8F have 2h50min (almost 3 hours  :blink: ) turnaround time,at big airports. According to Boeing the cargo version is quicker in turnaround times. Average 91 minutes when nose door only, 96 minutes when side doors only and even 51 minutes when both are used.....there's got to be some kind of change. It's too long dont you think?

The turn-arround time varies with the airports size as there is more or less way to averagly travel. The pure flight time is what it's called - the time from turning onto the runway for starting until leaving it at the destination again including all slower flight periods and of course including possible holding on arrival.

The turn-arround time varies with the airports size as there is more or less way to averagly travel. The pure flight time is what it's called - the time from turning onto the runway for starting until leaving it at the destination again including all slower flight periods and of course including possible holding on arrival.

So essentially you are including all the time it takes for the aircraft between door closure and takeoff roll in the turn around time?

The +25 minutes added to all flight time is for takeoff, climbing to cruise, maneuvering, descent, approach and landing. Correct me if I am wrong please.

As forexlive mentioned the turn around times for particular aircraft are higher than Boeing suggests (perhaps a bit optimistically). Therefore the difference between the real world turn around times, and in game times is for taxiing.

it is VERY IMPORTANT to note that most large commercial aircraft have a dispatch reliability of over 99% (varies by aircraft type and airline). This dispatch reliability is defined as the percentage of time an aircraft departs the gate within 15 minutes of the scheduled departure time. Speaking from a professional standpoint it typically takes no more than 15 minutes to taxi from the gate to takeoff position, even at a large, busy airport (this is another reason why time slots exist). Even if you add these two numbers together of +30 minutes (15 minutes taxi and 15 minutes “buffer” time) you would still get 138 minutes for the 747-8i, or 2 hours 18 minutes. This is less than the current values.

If anyone has information concerning real world airline turn around times (especially 747) please pitch in. So far i’m going on Boeings numbers.

Finally, for what it is worth. If it is possible to have a flexible turn around time system I would be very in favor of that. Especially for wide body’s on domestic runs.

including possible holding on arrival.

hm... I thought we dont simulate delays here. To be consistent, that would mean there can be no negative effects on the taxi time, flight time, turnaround time or anything else. Holdings on arrival would mean a delay because of traffic restrictions. Same goes for taxi time. Just saying....

hm... I thought we dont simulate delays here. To be consistent, that would mean there can be no negative effects on the taxi time, flight time, turnaround time or anything else. Holdings on arrival would mean a delay because of traffic restrictions. Same goes for taxi time. Just saying....

+1