Why is ORS rating different for return flight?

My outbound and inbound flights have different ORS rating. Same plane, same seat, same service, same price, yet ORS rating (both the first, and the second one price value) is different.

Can anybody explain this?

I test booked the same route on a different plane, with same seats and same service, and I am getting the same result - INBOUND has different ORS than OUTBOUND. Which I do not understand because of one leg has a certain value ratio (ORS) why would the other leg have different one? This is happening in C class.

Edited: example (for my reference flts 340/341) in C class: 32/76 (outbound) vs 29/77 (inbound). But it has the same rating in Y. This uses Lie Flat 140 in C, and Recliner shorthaul in Y.

Another flight (for my reference flts 908/987) have in C: 39/83 outbound, 29/77 inbound, in Y it's both the same. This flight uses, for example, Recline SH in C and Leisure in Y. Interesting thing is that on this route now a newly booked flight is showing 36/81 in C but that is still different from 39/83 on outbound leg.

The first flight, when using recliner SH in Y, rating remains the same on both outbound and inbound flights, but using those seats in C, rating differs on both outbound and inbound flights.

Could it relate to plane condition? If all else is equal, but your condition deteriorates as your plane is used, then it does seem logical. I’m not sure it’d have such a large impact though, given the number of missions we can assign (weekly) and still keep a >100% maintenance ratio.

Plane condition has only impact on image, which in turn has impact on ORS. My image is on slow but steady increase.*

And I do not think it is condition ... I just booked the same route on different plane, with same seats (idle one) and I got identical ORS results, different in C for outbound and different for inbound.

This must be some kind of a bug ... because some other flights I did book on different route have OK (same inbound and outbound) ORS rating in C.

*Edited: Also, image would have no affect on parked pane with immediate schedule activation where the whole schedule is loaded up at the same time.

Found some other flight ... (1134/1135) different rating in C on outbound/inbound.

C class, before seat/price change: 36/81 outbound vs 32/79 inbound

C class, after seat/price change: 39/79 outbound  vs 35/77 inbound

Another example: (255/256):  30/78 outbound vs 33/79 inbound (in C). In Y, both inbound and outbound are the same. This is a long-flying route where no changes have been done recently.

again, Y class rating on inbound and outbound is the same. (Y class ORS before seat/price change is same on outbound and inbound, and after seat/price change it is same on outbound/inbound as well).

So it looks the C class has problems in ORS ratings on some routes, with outbound being different rating than inbound.

BUG?

Or maybe the simulator doesn't conform to perfect mathematical models. Maybe it can't be quantified or "reverse engineered".

Hi,

Do you use a terminal at your hub ?

Jan

I THINK THIS IS A BUG AND I WILL EXPLAIN IT. Unless AS comes to state that it's supposed to work that way.

March 14: OK, we have concluded that it's supposed to be that way.

The ORS bug appears flying from a fewer-bar airport into more-bar airport. There you get lower ORS than reverse flight, flying from more-bar airport to less bar airport, on a flight distance of 400 to 1500 km. Exactly that distance. And the difference in bars between the airports must be at least 2 bars.

So, I will list couple of combinations and whether the bug is present or not. These are my findings by sorting through ORS of my own flights on various routes.

80 km 9 bar to 2 bar - YES

405 km 4 bar to 4 bar - NO

405 km 6 bar to 4 bar - YES

430 km 6 bar to 3 bar - YES

480 km 5 bar to 4 bar - NO

490 km 6 bar to 4 bar - YES

565 km 5 bar to 4 bar - NO

740 km 7 bar to 4 bar - YES

800 km 7 bar to 3 bar - YES

810 km 9 bar to 2 bar- YES

820 km 9 bar to 5 bar - YES

870 km 9 bar to 7 bar -NO

1350 km 9 bar to 5 bar - YES

1475 km 7 bar to 4 bar - YES

1590 km 7 bar to 5 bar - NO

1675 km 7 bar to 4 bar - NO

1940 km 7 bar to 4 bar - NO

1950 km 7 bar to 5 bar - NO

2125 km 9 bar to 2 bar - YES

2240 km 7 bar to 4 bar - NO

2660 km 9 bar to 2 bar - YES

2690 km 9 bar to 5 bar - NO

3245 km 9 bar to 3 bar - NO

I also made ORS search on similar routes, different airlines in other countries. Of course I do not know their service, but from looking on price (same) they have outbound ORS higher than inbound (from lower bar to higher bar airport). I can assume they offer same service on outbound and inbound flight, and with consecutive flight number it indicates the same aircraft. I have checked several routes that display similar pattern, so statistically speaking this is something that is coming up constantly. I suggest you check some of your own flights, for distance of 400-1500 kms, from a higher bar to lower bar airport (at least 2 bars difference) and you should see difference in C class ORS rating.

My conclusion: There is a bug that incorrectly calculates ORS, depending on distance and different in airport size (bars). Below certain distance the difference in ORS ratings in C class is null or negligible in C class, then between 400 and 1500 km the difference is 2-4 ORS points, and over 1500 km flights there is a difference is you fly from a very high bar airport (e.g. 9/10)

into very small airport (1-2 bars). 9 Bar to 3-4 bar was not showing me this problem on 1500+ km distance, but 9 bar to 2 bar yes.

In other words, if you fly shorter distance between airports with too many bars difference, the ORS rating on outbound flight will be different than on inbound flight.This difference will be decreasing as the difference in bars decreases, and as the flight distance increases. In cases where ORS is different on inbound and outbound flight, it is always flight that goes from more bars airport into fewer bars airport that has better ORS than the return flight coming back from fewer bars airport into more bars airport.

Edit: I should add that this does not affect only me, I see my competitors with same ORS differences (given the same rate on inbound and outbound) but of course I can only assume they use the same service level on both legs.

Hi,

Do you use a terminal at your hub ?

Jan

AS standard handling

Or maybe the simulator doesn't conform to perfect mathematical models. Maybe it can't be quantified or "reverse engineered".

I already found the "logic" of the bug ... see above.

Jan ... check your own SSH-DXB flight Yourself you have 69/99 and 83/99 on outbound and return respectively. I presume you use the same aircraft and service on both outbound and return.

Haven't checked it at the moment, but ...

you are talking about the overall-rating? And the return flights are operated after the other direction? Is it maybe possible that it is the normal time rating, meaning arriving earlier?

I don't believe there is any influence on the ORS rating by airports size and distance.

Anyway, we will check it.

Jan ... check your own SSH-DXB flight Yourself you have 69/99 and 83/99 on outbound and return respectively. I presume you use the same aircraft and service on both outbound and return.

Hi,

you may have found something strange, but SSH-DXB is a bad example... I forgot to activate the service contract in Dubai  :-)

Apart from that, yes, service and ticket prices are identical on the outbound and inbound flight. But I have now activated the service contract in Dubai. From now on, planes leaving Dubai and bound for Sharm El Sheikh should  have the same rating as theopposite direction.

I have however noticed something else in the past. Maybe that causes the different ORS rating...

Some airports give you one green bar for terminal, other airports give you two green bars for terminal. Perhaps it has to do with the presence (or the lack) of jetways. I looked and found an example: SJW-URC gives me a slightly better rating (63/99) than URC-SJW (60/99) for business class.

The rating for economy is the same in both directions, but economy passengers don't care that much for terminals. You clearly see that when you build your own terminal. A 5 star terminal with jetways will give your business class rating a big boost, while it only gives you a few extra rating points for economy.

Cheers,

Jan

Haven't checked it at the moment, but ...

you are talking about the overall-rating? And the return flights are operated after the other direction? Is it maybe possible that it is the normal time rating, meaning arriving earlier?

I don't believe there is any influence on the ORS rating by airports size and distance.

Anyway, we will check it.

Both the "first" rating, and "second" the overall ORS rating are different.

Jan ... I think you found the reason... I did a test assuming what you said could hold true after I reviewed some routes in question with different return ORS rating, and yes there was a difference of bars for "terminals" in "flight rating". So I did a test, 5 bar to 5 bar, over 1750 km distance, one airport with jetways other without. The finding: 51/93 and return 48/91.

From airport with Jetways into Airport without Jetways: higher ORS

From airport without Jetways into Airport with Jetways: lower ORS

Your assumption is therefore confirmed. I will do one more test, 5-bar-no jetways into 1-bar-no-jetway, just for certainty's sake, but I think you nailed the problem.

(And as a result of this finding, we now know that jetways make about 2-3 point difference in ORS rating).

But it opens up another question: WHY?

There are "no jetways" on both legs, the difference is whether no jetways are at an origin or destination airport. So while AS buxiness pax "might care" about jetways, why do they only care about jetways at an origin point?

Maybe they're so happy they don't care if they have to get off the plane without one? :D

Also, don't take my posts too serious. Personally, I don't see the problem with why one flight only gets to 98 while another can get to 99. If everyone is subject to the same rule and formula, then what does it matter that the numbers don't match up? I suppose I don't see the issue. However, if it is a problem with the formula itself, and not a product of the formula, then it should be looked at by the AS staff (meaning Martin). They could put up a new forum area called 'Bug Reports'.

Passenger do care about the terminal departing from as they have to go to the security there and waiting in the waiting room. Part of that, the jetways are included. On arrival an aircraft may be parked at jetways, but in some countries may be deboarded by bus anyway. But the more important reason is, that we did not have the data for the arrival airport. This may change one day when the new features will be available ;)

... why do they only care about jetways at an origin point?

Hi,

that's how the game works  :-)

But gamewise, I see the logic. If you build a terminal, you pay for staff at that terminal and you get the bonus at that terminal. If you would spread the bonus over the departing airport and the destination airport, it would complicate things. You would have to activate passenger handling (apply the contract) on both the airport of departure and of arrival. But there is no "check-out" upon arrival (as opposed to check-in).

Jan

So we can conclude, that it's not a bug but it's supposed to work that way.

I am just wondering... is it common for airlines (once they have money) to build terminals at outstations with no jetways?

Yes, it is supposed to work this way.

... is it common for airlines (once they have money) to build terminals at outstations with no jetways?

Hi,

I don't know if it is common. Jetways only add 3% to the price, so I always add jetways when I build a terminal.

Jan