As a result the table can't be sorted by class/load/price anymore, but a flight will be a flight again. By the way, you say that people wanted the table to be sortable. But I have yet to see someone who called for this to step forward and say "yeah, this is exactly how I imagined it".
With 24 booking classes (in the future) I cannot imagine the table not to be sortable...
You could still filter the view by booking class.
By the way: the flight list for a single aircraft needs to be changed so that there is one row per class, too. I can't see how 24 booking classes would fit horizontally.
You could still filter the view by booking class.
Yes. But ever tried to do that for 100+ routes to get a quick overview, which flights of the day are performing and which aren't?
No, there have been actual suggestions - like mine posted in another thread.
> Removing redundant information - flight number, departure time and so on only once per flight number
> Visual separation (if only of the smallest kind) between flight numbers
> Example: Flight number, departure time etc. in first line; 2 booking classes in first line; extra booking classes in second line
This is of course not meant to be the perfect solution. Just an input for discussion.
ok, let's try to be constructive here.
The real problem ist not that you need one line per class. The real problem ist that you want the table to be sortable by class, load factor and price, which it wasn't before and I never missed it. (And I bet most others didn't either.)
Several proposals have already been made, basically all the same: Use one table row per flight number, have the row contain no redundant information (i.e. flight#, AC type, times, status, details button only once), and if needed use a multi-line area inside the row to display class/load/pricing information. There's no problem with unequal row height, as long as they are alternating in color. (Unequal row height is a common concept in tables.)
As a result the table can't be sorted by class/load/price anymore, but a flight will be a flight again. By the way, you say that people wanted the table to be sortable. But I have yet to see someone who called for this to step forward and say "yeah, this is exactly how I imagined it".
I am aware of this approach and have stated the issues I see with it. But it's also the best we got so far, so an alternative view like this might be a compromise that's relatively easy to achieve. Emphasis on "alternative"...it probably makes sense to keep both in a way that the user can select whatever they prefer.
By the way: the flight list for a single aircraft needs to be changed so that there is one row per class, too. I can't see how 24 booking classes would fit horizontally.
I am aware of this and it will be addressed once I get to it. I sincerely hope though that no one seriously uses this view to check their loads because if at all, the loads there will be displayed in a very rudimentary fashion.
I sincerely hope though that no one seriously uses this view to check their loads
I do, and quite regularly. There are several use cases for this.
I am aware of this and it will be addressed once I get to it. I sincerely hope though that no one seriously uses this view to check their loads because if at all, the loads there will be displayed in a very rudimentary fashion.
I use it to make decisions whether to upgauge/downgauge aircraft by seeing the flown and the booked flights alltogether. E.g. I see that one route (or pair) is booked 100% but others are at 50%, decision: the aircraft needs downgauging. Removing the ability to quickly check A/C load flights list would be a mistake, IMHO.
Or after a new aircraft is scheduled, I put it into a "watch" fleet which I check for the next 3-4 days t see how loads are doing generally.
I think there are even more possible reasons why players use checking loads through flights list.
I use it to make decisions whether to upgauge/downgauge aircraft by seeing the flown and the booked flights alltogether. E.g. I see that one route (or pair) is booked 100% but others are at 50%, decision: the aircraft needs downgauging. Removing the ability to quickly check A/C load flights list would be a mistake, IMHO.
Ok, I get that (I do the same), but for this, a very simple, maybe color-coded display of percentage per class would do, right?
Yes please bring back this screen i also used it more than any other and i am very disappointed that its been removed
Ok, after some playing around I am starting to think I can work with the new stuff.... just feels so unfamiliar! would love to see the route map though somewhere.
Ok, I get that (I do the same), but for this, a very simple, maybe color-coded display of percentage per class would do, right?
For me ... not really. I use about 30 or more different seating configs among all aircraft types, so by seeing the X/Y in terms of booked/total capacity is quite important. I cannot imagine going to fleet list so I can see seating configs for each aircraft.
Example where quickly seeing X/Y in terms of seats is important: I see a flight flying a trunk route, at 100% LF Y & C. One (or both) of the airports are slot congested. I can quickly make decision that I need more seats on that route. But maybe upgauge is no longer possible (e.g. 739/321 -> what's bigger in narrowbody category?) so I can decide to install lower quality but more seats per plane to allow for even more passengers and connections to be booked.
Or another example:
I have an A320 doing long medium haul flights with a config RSH/LF140, with the setups: 90/15 and 96/10. Let's say Y is booked 100% (90/90) and C is booked 11/15. If I only have percentages, I do not know what are my options in terms of seat configs. When I see a case like the above, I switch seat config from 90/15 to 96/10, because my analysis says that Y being full I will most likely have it full with 96 seats as well, whereby I will be giving up only 1 seats in C in exchange for 6 seats in Y, which I am still economically better off doing. But I need to compare that to other routes on that aircraft... will they be affected? If I have 3 other routes that have 12/15, 13/15 and 15/15 bookings in C respectively, but the flight with 15/15C only has 83/90 booked in Y. Reviewing all of this, I make a decision that I am not going to change the seat config because in overall terms I would receive less money with that aircraft. It's a business analysis of tradeoffs, and sum of everything for the greater good/benefit generated. But I need to know exact numbers of what I am working with. Also, flight list will show me booking levels for the past 2 days, actual bookings and future bookings, so it substantially helps in decision making.
By removing the number of seats booked/capacity would require many more clicks to get that information. And somehow I work better with concrete, descriptive numbers (70/85) than relative numbers (82%). It all gets down to a point: "percentage of what?"
In AS it is insufficient to only consider a route/flight number profitability, it is crucial and absolutely essential to review and manage overall aircraft profitability as well. I cannot imagine doing strategic analysis without the information on hand, without having it as presented at the moment in the Flights List.
I have been playing AS on and off for a few years now and I thought I would weigh in as well. While I do enjoy many of th new features, the biggest drawback of 6.2 is the loss of the route management tab. It made everything very simple in terms of displaying your loads, the route, competitions and bookable or fully booked. I miss this the most as it was always the most frequent tab I used. I am having some difficulty adjusting as now it takes too many clicks to examine the route, change pricing and settings, and the screen is much to clogged with all the class information and how many seats are left. Even with that information It still doesn’t display my information like in the old system and can easily adjust things if needed.
I do enjoy the new connections, and sleekness of the other tabs, but I do miss the route management tab, or some form of it.
Happy flying!
+1
I think this will be the final straw for many players. If you have more than 3 aircraft it is almost impossible to keep track of everything.
I just think this update came at a really bad time. In Ellinikon, AGEX is falling pretty significantly, meaning that I'm having to quickly try to figure out all the new stuff to adjust accordingly to the dropping AGEX. It's just frustrating to try to learn it all while keeping your business class loads from falling off a cliff. I just ordered a new CR9 so I can try out the new scheduling. We'll see..
How do i put all flights on one route into a group? Old GUI has function to put all flights on one route into one group with all those service functions. General Settings on new GUI doesn't include that function any more. Any chance to bring it back?
This is already on the list: http://community.airlinesim.aero/topic/8054-ende-airlinesim-62-early-feedback-and-status/
Another thing with route management:
When I open the Inventory tab and select an origin in the airport pair, it doesn't adjust the destination, even if there's only one route linked to that origin airport. This adds me another three clicks (somehow I really think that the AS-Team is very resistant when it comes to making the game easier with less mouse clicks).
In detail: If I only operate from destination B to my hub A, when I select B as an origin airport, the destination remains the same, the alphabetically first station I have. Then I have to adjust destination to A again. That's worse than it was in the previous version, where the first alphabetically operated route from B was selected.
Any chance to reinstall this feature? Everything else does not make sense!
I have been playing for several years and feel the need to weigh in on this. While I have many issues with the new interface and it's lack of user-friendliness, the greatest single loss with the new setup is "Route Management." After reading the above explanations, I am still not convinced that it is an improvement to add multiple steps to replace one screen that summarized so much useful information in one place. Adding a slick new appearance is pointless if the game becomes harder to play.
Martin, thank you for the ‘group flight’ setting on the Inventory page. It’s definately an improvement!
Can we have the same setting on the Market analysis page?
Also, I would suggest a setting for the Market analysis page to switch between showing flights based on ‘availability’ of seats to showing booked numbers + percentages (like on the inventory page). For competitor flights instead of numbers we could have the old ‘fully booked’ / ‘bookable’ terms instead of showing numbers.
I haven't decided yet how I want to structure the Market Analysis page. The first thought that comes to mind is of course to structure it in the same way the Inventory is structured. But there's an important difference: Once booking classes can be customized, they have the same meaning within your airline (booking class W is always booking class W), but they might have a total different meaning for another airline (W might be Premium Economy in your system but W means non-refundable point-2-point Business Class at another). So on the one hand it might make sense to structure by service class instead of booking class (Eco, Premium Eco, Business, First, Cargo as today), but then you have information loss (because you might want to check out how single booking classes of the competition are doing. On the other hand, if you provide the full list of booking classes, you are in fact lacking crucial information in the simple list of classes, because all you got to distinguish them is the class letter but you'd have to know what they actually stand for. It's a tricky issue and one of the main reasons this part of "Route Management" was moved to an extra page in the first place. I'm open for suggestions...maybe a totally different view would make sense here...or a combination of several ones.