ASEAN Open Sky 2015

As the titled said, I'm just wondering, whether AS will start to open the market for ten countries in ASEAN due to the ASEAN Open Sky 2015 policy next year, or not...

Of course, it is not the same like European Union or Yamoussoukro Decision, because (if i am not wrong), there's grouping in several countries based on the economic strength. It would be frustrating for me for ASEAN carrier in AS to face this kind of thing. But still, I am wondering, will this be implemented in the game?

From what I read here http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/02/28/aseans-open-skies-dream.htmlfor now, the Asean Open Skies will look like Caricom 5th freedom. It will not be single aviation market, even though that is the intention for the future.

I don't think so.. Can't imagine Singapore Airlines start flying CGK-DPS or CGK-SUB, gonna be doomsday for local airlines.

Just now they have 10 daily CGK-SIN with 777 to feed their international long haul and load factor of GA and QZ greatly affected.

They might however fly those domestic routes with a local subsidiary, who knows who actually own Lion Air  :P

So might be implemented in  AS as to allow ASEAN carrier to own subsidiary in other ASEAN countries  :P

I don't think so.. Can't imagine Singapore Airlines start flying CGK-DPS or CGK-SUB, gonna be doomsday for local airlines.

Just now they have 10 daily CGK-SIN with 777 to feed their international long haul and load factor of GA and QZ greatly affected.

They might however fly those domestic routes with a local subsidiary, who knows who actually own Lion Air  :P

So might be implemented in  AS as to allow ASEAN carrier to own subsidiary in other ASEAN countries  :P

Why it has to be a doomsday?

The reason why SQ in real life has so many flights on CGK-SIN route is only because they offered a lot of connection. Not because of their price or even the service. But it would be different if we talk about the value of the price, because yes, SQ has a good value. What makes Lion Air big is because Rusdy Kirana didn't use SQ's strategy in Indonesia.

If ASEAN Openskies is really implemented, SQ cannot fly any international routes from Indonesia unless if it is 5th freedom. So if SQ open another 10 CGK-SUB or CGK-DPS, it doesn't mean local airline will be killed. No...

How many Indonesian love to fly a 1,5 hour long flight by paying Rp4.000.000,-? (Average rates of CGK-SIN flights by SQ, a 1,5 hour flight)

Few. Maybe me, as I would love to fly SQ from my hometown in BDO to DPS by SQ. But not the major of Indonesian flyer. The rest of Indonesian might be willing to pay maximum 1,5 million rupiahs for domestic.

So, why it has to be a doomsday?

Unless, SQ makes a low cost subsidiary. Or full service carrier which can compete with lower rates like Garuda or Malaysia Airlines.

Unfortunately, up until today, the possibility of implementation of ASEAN Open Skies is still exist.

So, maybe it will happen. Even if it is only a free and easy-acquired 5th freedom flight between ASEAN countries.

Why it has to be a doomsday?

The reason why SQ in real life has so many flights on CGK-SIN route is only because they offered a lot of connection. Not because of their price or even the service. But it would be different if we talk about the value of the price, because yes, SQ has a good value. What makes Lion Air big is because Rusdy Kirana didn't use SQ's strategy in Indonesia.

If ASEAN Openskies is really implemented, SQ cannot fly any international routes from Indonesia unless if it is 5th freedom. So if SQ open another 10 CGK-SUB or CGK-DPS, it doesn't mean local airline will be killed. No...

How many Indonesian love to fly a 1,5 hour long flight by paying Rp4.000.000,-? (Average rates of CGK-SIN flights by SQ, a 1,5 hour flight)

Few. Maybe me, as I would love to fly SQ from my hometown in BDO to DPS by SQ. But not the major of Indonesian flyer. The rest of Indonesian might be willing to pay maximum 1,5 million rupiahs for domestic.

So, why it has to be a doomsday?

Unless, SQ makes a low cost subsidiary. Or full service carrier which can compete with lower rates like Garuda or Malaysia Airlines.

Unfortunately, up until today, the possibility of implementation of ASEAN Open Skies is still exist.

So, maybe it will happen. Even if it is only a free and easy-acquired 5th freedom flight between ASEAN countries.

You seems a little bit high spirit in discussing the topic. :P Okay doomsday might be a little bit exaggeration. Yes it would not be the end of day for local airline, but still their market share will greatly eroded when SQ (and all their subsidiaries) allowed to fly Indonesian domestic routes. SQ have everything to gain but Indonesian airlines have nothing to gain by opening our skies for them. What Indonesian airlines would like to fly from Changi to Seletar, so why we give up our cake of CGK-DPS, CGK-SUB, etc. when got nothing in return. Also even without sharing the cake it's already a competitive market.

The Indonesian government will not ink the deal and will continue to protect the local market. Possibility still exist but what come of it is just more bilateral agreements to increase traffic between ASEAN countries just like the article stated and not a pure form of ASEAN Open Skies of single aviation market. The pure form of ASEAN Open Skies will actually take place underground, behind the scene, written in fine detail of an airline franchising and ownership deal like Lion Group or AirAsia Group as they establish local subsidiaries in every ASEAN countries  :D

5th freedom rights are not cabotage. 5th freedom mean Singapore - Indonesia - Malaysia. The second leg also must be within Asean area, so it cannot be Singapore - Indonesia - USA. Also for each 5th freedom flight out of Indonesia they would need to run a flight from Singapore into Indonesia.

What you are talking about is a common market. As per article, it may happen some day in the future, but it isn’t going to happen now. So no worries. …

I did not understand, why I was accused of having a high spirit in discussing this topic.

I was the one who started the topic, which is clearly I am the one who raise the concern about this issues. And I am questioning this to forum, in case the ASEAN Open Skies will be magically happened out of nowhere and AS might wanna take the thought of it.

It is not high spirit. It is what a forum used for. Asking, answering, giving opinion, giving information, discussing based on data, etc.

(My apologies. I don't know why, but I do feel offended when you said that, rpandugita.)

Do I love to have ASEAN Open Skies in AS?

Nope.

I am the biggest Indonesian carrier in Stapleton right now. In ASEAN, there were Kanta Airline, Malaysia Truly Asia Airlines, and Thai Wings, who have no idea how to expand their airline as they're running out of slots on their main hub, and Indonesia is currently a delicious market in Stapleton today. I cannot imagine when they're invading my home base country, while I'm still in the process of making my airline big.

I do believe Indonesia's local aviation authority will not give away the market of Indonesia to other 9 countries in ASEAN. We're not that stupid. Indonesia has 50% of the area in ASEAN. The ASEAN Open Skies will not be made in such an unfair system. I have read another article about this, and I think this is the worse (article), (but I forgot the link as it was in PDF) it said that there will be grouping based on economic strength. Indonesia was grouped with Vietnam and Philippines. Singapore was grouped with Malaysia and Thailand. Thus, it said, the single aviation market only available per group. So Singapore Airlines will not be permitted to fly CGK-DPS. But Vietnam Airlines or Philippines airlines might.

But I don't believe that article. It just doesn't make sense.

What makes me worries, I live in Indonesia. And the topic about ASEAN Open Skies is started to grow lately, even in my local forum or newspaper. It sounds like, it is going to happen soon. Do I expect it? No. (Moreover, in AS.)

I did not understand, why I was accused of having a high spirit in discussing this topic.

I was the one who started the topic, which is clearly I am the one who raise the concern about this issues. And I am questioning this to forum, in case the ASEAN Open Skies will be magically happened out of nowhere and AS might wanna take the thought of it.

It is not high spirit. It is what a forum used for. Asking, answering, giving opinion, giving information, discussing based on data, etc.

(My apologies. I don't know why, but I do feel offended when you said that, rpandugita.)

Do I love to have ASEAN Open Skies in AS?

Nope.

I am the biggest Indonesian carrier in Stapleton right now. In ASEAN, there were Kanta Airline, Malaysia Truly Asia Airlines, and Thai Wings, who have no idea how to expand their airline as they're running out of slots on their main hub, and Indonesia is currently a delicious market in Stapleton today. I cannot imagine when they're invading my home base country, while I'm still in the process of making my airline big.

I do believe Indonesia's local aviation authority will not give away the market of Indonesia to other 9 countries in ASEAN. We're not that stupid. Indonesia has 50% of the area in ASEAN. The ASEAN Open Skies will not be made in such an unfair system. I have read another article about this, and I think this is the worse (article), (but I forgot the link as it was in PDF) it said that there will be grouping based on economic strength. Indonesia was grouped with Vietnam and Philippines. Singapore was grouped with Malaysia and Thailand. Thus, it said, the single aviation market only available per group. So Singapore Airlines will not be permitted to fly CGK-DPS. But Vietnam Airlines or Philippines airlines might.

But I don't believe that article. It just doesn't make sense.

What makes me worries, I live in Indonesia. And the topic about ASEAN Open Skies is started to grow lately, even in my local forum or newspaper. It sounds like, it is going to happen soon. Do I expect it? No. (Moreover, in AS.)

chillex dude.. "santai keleus, hehe"  :P

my apologies to you also then. when i said high spirit, the tone was in positive one actually.

i even add this emoticon -->  :P to make sure the tone kinda cheerful  :P

Noun1.high spirits - a feeling of joy and pride

joyjoyfulnessjoyousness - the emotion of great happiness
 
euphoriaeuphory - a feeling of great (usually exaggerated) elation
 

I think we share the same concern regarding the ASEAN Open Skies issues.

Not only my AS-airline is based in Indonesia but I also make a living out of that market IRL. :D 

so yeah hopefully it turns out to our favor..  ^_^

damai?