Cheating still going on and nothing happens

English Boards General
21

lets do the math: leasing deposit for an old F50 is between 70.000 and 100.000 AS$.

Starting with 10.000.000 AS$ allows you to lease from scratch roughly 80 to 100 F50, if they are available.

With as little as 45 seats, 6 daily flights and 70 F50 in a fleet, the airline can transport up to 132300 passengers within a week. Within six weeks, and some other aircrafts joining the fleet, 900k pax is looking more like a problem within the business-modell of such an airline than cheating

If i would start with 10.000.000 AS$, leasing 5 new 737 with 135 seats and flying 4 legs a day, i couldn’t offer more than 18900 seats a week. Within six weeks, 100k pax is hardly to archive.

Asking my accountant, the second way looks much better than the first way.

Asking the tabloid, the first way would be the success.

22

Mike,

I have raised this issue with the AS team in the past. Myself along with many other players do not see eye to eye with the UAB or the AS team.

Unless you are one of the ‘well liked’ than don’t waste your time with this battle, I’d go into further info about that but too much freedom of speech is not welcomed by the AS team orvthe UAB. They have made a decision they feel is right and appropriate and you just won’t win.

Which server is it may I ask? If it is in Pearls than your best bet would be move to another server, not just because of this but other reasons also.

23

Sorry for you, but i just looking for new planes

  • Boeing 727-200 you can lease for 200K$ with leasing rate 20K$/ week, so you can easy got 40 airplanes for 8 million $ and keep 2 million for fuel

  • 727-200 can carry 189 passengers

  • can fly 3 destination 2 times per day = 12 flight/day

So that is facts

if you have 100% full booking you got shocking numbers

This 40 planes can transfer in 7 days 635 040 passengers

so in 4 weeks you have capacity for 2 540 160 passengers

All in 10 million start budget

And if 1 flight have income avg 100$ per passenger …

well all is little luck and you must know when and where to send all this planes

24

Yup! This strategy works however has a problem when you encounter a player that starts with newer planes. Whatever you do the 727 will never beat a 737NG on a similar route. People will always fly with the newer one at the same price

25

Yb i know you are expert (I saw your video tutorial)

But i just set one 727-200 on route

Zagreb(ZAG) - Cairo (CAI)

expenses is:

-19,333 AS$ fuel, maintenance and rest of fly cost per flight

income is:

100% plain booking

37.456 AS$

only 737-900 can beat 727-200

but look how much they cost?

new 737-800 cost 57,000,000 AS$

if you take leasing 2.5 million is deposit and week rate is 254,612 AS$

next 737-800 BGW have effective range 1985 km

my 727-200 Adv. RE (winglets) have range 3965 km, my plane have 2x bigger range then 737-800 BGW

and plane cost me 18,831 per week

Only real better plane is 737-900ER HGW (winglets) but cost 70 million$

3.5 mil on deposit and 352,500 AS$ per week

i have 3x 727-200 own, and one on leasing

i know, 737 is better, but not always not on beginning

so i start new company with 3 my planes, one on leasing

Next week i must pay -235,961 AS$ for payroll and leasing, and that is all my expeces

so, i say 727 is best buy plane for beginner

26

The 727 is bigger and has a better range, that is true. But I wasn’t talking about “beating him in size”, I was talking about beating him in demand calculation.

If you fly this plane it will get -5 rating for age (the youngest I saw was 29.3 years old) and -3 for pax preference. while i.e. the 737-700 will get +5 for age and +5 for pax preference. That is a difference of eighteen (-8 to +10).

So at the same price and at any route the 737 will always take the bookings first and leave you with scrap :) You pay for it, that is true. But the 737 is newer and better.

So if there is demand of 250 people the 737 will have full flights and you? You will not.

PS: I consider the maintenance for older planes and fuel differences too weak in this game to be honest however the model imo works great overall :)

27

@darky007, that is possible only if you can rent them in the first place. Obviously, a newer plane can easily compete with 727 and wipe out your profit as yb pointed out.

This topic is getting very tedious and boring. I believe most players are complaining about the rapid growth of some companies after the launch of new market system which we all can access. If a player uses it well, plays within the rules and grows big, fair and square, good for them.

However, openly accusing people cheating without evidence is just immature.

28

well you right, but…

it that case you must "trick" the system

simple use "Online Reservation System" and check route

  • if you have competition you can avoid him on new route

  • or offer better cabin service offer better time of flight and beat his advantage of newer aircraft

I love 727 because carry passengers and cargo on low-mid range route, and still made respectable profit (i have 40 g old planes)

btw, YB you can watch my new company on croydon (RT Airtransport), first flight starts tomorrow, and if I’m right after 7 days i will have stable company

than i will write one "How to start" for guys with tips what not to do

xcoolgen, I know that but you have only 10 millions for start, you can’t buy new 737 for that…

but you can buy 3x 727, and no rent, no extra expenses, and when you earn enough money then you can buy or lease new 737 or airbus

Starting game with dash 8 is dam slow and boring

29

that is not "tricking" the system. That is just normal behavior on the market

And I am not saying that buying 727’s is a bad idea. It is a different strategy than with the 737’s. Or Airbuses. Or turboprops. There is a myriad of ways how to go about it. Hell I even saw a guy who leased one long range A340 and operated 6 weekly flights. And I adore that, he had his own strategy and worked around the costs of one airplane

Your strategy has:

  • more profit

  • owning your own planes

  • easy to be beaten by competition

  • extra costs on maintenance and fuel

it’s that simple

30

Some aspects of the new aircraft market have been removed.

Whilst it is fair to not accuse players of cheating without any evidence, it is pretty obvious these features were removed as they did not have the desired effect.

Removing certain features (where the use of then was not deemed wrong) in my opinion amounts to rule breaking, otherwise they would all be there for us to exploit now that a certain few have used it for their advantage.

31

I can affirm that it is really possible to operate the 727-200 profitably :wink: I am using this type only for fun and nostalgia as a 150-seater.

Regards

32

@darky007

It "works" maybe but only because you are the only airline in Croatia, so basically you enjoy the privilege to ask for almost any price.

As soon you have competition (because for example an airline starts Germany-Croatia flights) with newer airplanes

your rusty 727s will be less populated…or even empty. And then have fun. ;)

The old airframes are really uncompetitive in a market with more than 1 airline…

33

well i took Croatia because i have some protection against global alliances -

And I know all weakness of 727, but for start is excellent choice (i didn’t expect that is so good)

when i make first money i will upgrade fleet on 737 or A32x (i didn’t yet make all calculations what is better for me)

but basic 727 fleet make me more options then i start with dash 8

but i can’t say more, because competition now know where I am, and watching me

34

As you know from the other thread, I love calculating…

So here’s what I get if I evaluate an owned 40y old 727-200Adv and a leased new 737-900ER BGW on the ZAG-LHR route (based on my settings for maint):

Both easily do the route 3x daily -> 42 flights a week (no matter what the evaluation tool wrongly will tell you)

Costs for the return trip as per the evaluation tool, corrected by the number of weekly flights (42 possible for both!):

722: 23,481$ + 20,940$ (-2*1,786$ for capital if you want) = 40,849$

739: 17,180$ + 16,532$ = 33,932$

Capacity if standard seat is selected:

722: 189

739: 187

Capacity if ecoseat selected (You wont operate on standard seats when there’s any competiton)

722: 157 -> cost per seat 40,849$/(2*157) = 130$

739: 179 -> cost per seat 33,932$/(2*179) = 95$

As I said, I calculated with my settings (I take it the evaluation takes these into account) had to rely on the evaluation tool’s figures when no other data available.

What kills your 722 is maint (8,744$ as opposed to 2,296$) and fuel consuption (7,894$ as opposed to 5,291$), coupled with the way better rating o the 739 and the higher capacity if not standard seating is installed.