Currently it is very hard for someone new to start on an old server as "old" airlines are very dominant.. sometimes with market shares over 50% on certain airports. In real life you have all kinds of regulatory organs which insure competition in the market. (e.g. ryanair cannot buy air lingus.. as the market share on a lot of lines would become to big) Wouldn't it be good that something insuring competition would be built in in the game? Otherwise the old servers become pretty boring with the big dinosaurs dominating the skies.
This game certainly needs some sort of competition.....it's really non existing right now. There are various reasons for that and I really hope the team is looking for solutions.
IMO raising the operating costs for small planes is the easiest to implement and it'll free up a lot of slots. Look around the servers. So many wasted Slots because of CRJs, EMBs, 737-600s and what not flying between mega airports.
Currently it is very hard for someone new to start on an old server as "old" airlines are very dominant.. sometimes with market shares over 50% on certain airports. In real life you have all kinds of regulatory organs which insure competition in the market. (e.g. ryanair cannot buy air lingus.. as the market share on a lot of lines would become to big) Wouldn't it be good that something insuring competition would be built in in the game? Otherwise the old servers become pretty boring with the big dinosaurs dominating the skies.
Everyday there a new airlines starting on old servers and many of them manage to get big themsevles. I guess that's because they acutally play and not only complain in the forum.
I myself started my airline when the server was over a year old and manged to grow to 900 aircraft at the moment. Currently my alliance has a new member who started only a few months ago and is doing very well so far. So neither your claim that there's no competition nor your claim that you can't start a new airline on old servers are true at all. Of course it's probably a bad idea to start a new airline on an old server at a mega hub like Frankfurt. But that's part of the game. You need to find your market just like in the real world where a new airline starting at Franfkurt would probably have a very though position against Lufthansa's presence.
This game certainly needs some sort of competition.....it's really non existing right now. There are various reasons for that and I really hope the team is looking for solutions.
IMO raising the operating costs for small planes is the easiest to implement and it'll free up a lot of slots. Look around the servers. So many wasted Slots because of CRJs, EMBs, 737-600s and what not flying between mega airports.
I think the level of realism is fine, as a new player making my way on an old server, in that any new airline is going to face dominant incumbents unless they happened to be founded at the dawn of commercial aviation (or survived the start of a server). The advantage of playing on an old server as a small, new airline is I can watch my loads and fares like a hawk in the way that the big incumbents can't- and if the cost of that is that my airline is unlikely to ever land at Frankfurt, so be it. I don't need Frankfurt in my network. No brand new airline flying Dash 8 aircraft is going to be able to get ideal slots at airports such as NRT, FRA or JFK in the real world, so why should they in AS?
I'd rather see competition improved in relation to ground transport- some of the routes that clog up airports in Europe or Japan, for example, just don't exist in the real world due to excellent rail networks. But I also appreciate that this level of detail in the ground networks system is an immense amount of work for someone so may not be practical.
I can watch my loads and fares like a hawk in the way that the big incumbents can't.
Thats kind of my point. I dont really need to watch my loads. When I establish a new route I watch if it it successfull or not. If it is profitable I leave it, if not I transfer it to my subsidary and use smaller equippment. It is completely unrelated to other players.
I had many routes where I was the only operator and watched "competition" entering but I never ever had to close a route because I was squeezed out of that market. Other than the fluctuation induced by the AGEX I dont really "recognize" the efforts of my competitors.
Maybe you only had luck so far ;)
... I guess that's because they acutally play and not only complain in the forum.
Hi,
this is playing the guy, not playing the ball. This tackle (to continue in soccer terms) says more about you than about Koja's abilities to run an airline ;-)
Besides, he did not say it was impossible. He said it was difficult. And I agree with him.
Let me give you a simple example... just today a major airline ended his IL with me because I have an IL with a new airline. So apart from actively trying to squeeze new airlines by extra flights on routes that are flown by the new airline, established airlines also put pressure on players who support the new airline. And I know that many airlines don't interline with small airlines because they fear they will loose another (bigger IL) or because they think the new airline will probably not survive anyway.
It is all part of the game. But I agree that it is more difficult to start a new airline on an established server.
Jan
Let me give you a simple example... just today a major airline ended his IL with me because I have an IL with a new airline.
That was actually quite dirty and reprehensible on their side ....
That was actually quite dirty and reprehensible on their side ....
How is that dirty and reprehensible? It might seem like that to you, but to others it might be good business. I, for one, try to be friendly and honest on the forums. I answer new players' posts and questions, and include my ideas and try to give support to others that have good ideas, or help them modify them to help the game.
But if you're starting an airline in my hub, I don't mess around. This is cut-throat economics and strategy. My main competitor in my main hub is a "team member" for AS, but that doesn't mean I'm intimidated or going to be nice to him. I've been squeezing him out as best I can, and unless there's some major changes in the next three or four days, he should go bankrupt.
Interlining is another tool of the game that can be used both as a way to increase profits for yourself, and limit profits for the others. I don't interline with anyone that interlines with my main competitors in any of my hubs. There was one time I remember someone rejected an interlining with my new airline in a different open country after I had sent a message and the contract. In response to the rejection, I cancelled the interlining contract between that airline and my main airline, one of the biggest in the USA. Was it reprehensible? I don't think so.
IGA = IGC. In Game Actions equals In Game Consequences. Another airline offered an interlining contract, and after the contract was signed and went into effect, they messaged me and suggested we work together at this particular hub airport. I responded back that my plan was to take as many slots as I could. In response, the person cancelled the interlining contract with me. Completely fair, in my opinion.
But back to the topic...
It takes a lot of work to get a large airline. I'm constantly doing updates and adjustments to my airline to keep the profits and loads as high as possible. For all my efforts, I'm sitting at a consistent 98% seat load factor, 35% margins, and grew so fast in the past two months I went from the #30 airline in the USA to #3. Like Forexlive, I don't check everything every day. I simply can't. I have learned, though, that (at least for the beginning of a new server) getting a large airline going isn't easy and takes a lot of time and attention to detail. The people that do the research and the work end up higher than others.
Doesn't mean that's what everyone is reaching for, either. A lot of people are happy running a small airline where they don't have to check in every day or two. They like island-hopping airlines that barely scrape by. That's cool too. :)
That was actually quite dirty and reprehensible on their side ....
Hi,
I don't consider this dirty. There are many airlines that insist on unique IL agreements. In a way, it is also more realistic. Anyway, in this case it probably means that the new airline is not flying under the radar anymore and has become a nuisance for the big airline ;-)
Personally I am fairly relaxed about IL's. I don't think accepting or rejecting an IL has ever made or killed an airline. But I agree with Caithes: don't offer an IL to Red Star Lebanon if you rejected an IL from Red Star Kenya.
Anyway, starting from scratch on an established server is not an easy task for a new player. This game has quite a steep learning curve. And it takes indeed a lot of careful planning, some research, patience, and regular attention to grow a successful airline.
But I am only here for the fun. Throat cutting economics is not my idea of fun ;-)
Jan
IMO raising the operating costs for small planes is the easiest to implement and it'll free up a lot of slots. Look around the servers. So many wasted Slots because of CRJs, EMBs, 737-600s and what not flying between mega airports.
Adjustments in key areas would automatically size and shape the airlines and I strongly believe that this would have no negative effect on playability or/and fun.
Thank you very much all for the nice an polite answers (pun intended).
Thank you very much all for the nice an polite answers (pun intended).
Sarcasm you mean?
Anyway this is an interesting topic. The largest issue I think is how slots are regulated in AS vs. Reality. Like many, I have started a successful airline on a well established server, with the help of some market analysis and generous interlining it is now very profitable. I will not claim starting a new airline on an existing server is insurmountable, however there are a few issues which weigh perhaps too heavily in the favor of established airlines. Again, the biggest factor here is slots.
When I start an airline on a new server, I have absolutely zero chance of having an effective presence at a hub with 99% slot occupancy. Now of course I am not confined to using one of these airports, however most hubs over 8 bars are completely saturated (server depending) and starting a hub there would be nearly impossible. Accepting this fact, any new airline can establish a presence at any non-saturated airport, usually one with less demand.
I am now in the position where I have dominated my current hub (7 bar) and wish to expand, this is severely hindered by the fact that (unless some major airline suddenly busts) I will never be able to expand into a larger airport as all the slots are taken. Sure I can slowly add a presence as slots become available over time, but this may literally take years.
Despite all of this, I am willing to accept the fact that I will be confined to edge network airports, because it seems like a realistic issue airlines must deal with. I just want to know how slots are regulated in the real world? Perhaps applying some of this knowledge may present us with a realistic solution to the issue.
Of course keep in mind I am now attempting to equate new airlines with large airport slot availability, but I do think the two are closely related. I know airports like ATL in the US are hugely dominated by airlines like Delta who hold the massive majority of slots. On the other hand you have airports like LAX, which do operate as Hubs, or mini hubs for many airlines, yet the slot discrepancy is not nearly so lopsided as in ATL. Anyone know why this is? Hopefully answering this may help us.
I have a huge share of Brazilian market in Tempelhof, but I don’t use tons of Dash-8 to scarce free slots like many in the game do. All my hubs are free for competition.
I think something should be done about airlines operating a shitload of small planes at huge airports. This clearly makes the game unreal and somewhat boring. In Tempelhof, it’s impossible to start in any big European airport because they are full of small planes. The result is a few international carriers from Europe in the game. European airlines fly only within EU and the rest of the world has to IL with European airlines to link Europe with other continents. We have only one or two examples of European flag carriers in Tempelhof, the rest is based on placing tons of Dash-8 and CRJ throughout EU.
the rest is based on placing tons of Dash-8 and CRJ throughout EU.
The same issue exists on a lot of servers. Without pointing fingers, when I played on Nicosia out of STN, I litterally had no chance to fly to a bigger airport in the US. I had a good internal network and would have filled the plane easily making some good competition. Guess what? Not a slight chance. CRJs, Dashs all over the place. There are 2 players "owning the market", taking every oppotunity from a non-US airline by simply controlling every airport. It made the game very dull and it was one of the reasons I quit there.
Unfortunately, AS team seems to ignore the problem or have the feeling there should be no such limitation as to how a player can operate their airline. In general I agree with that but only to a certain extent.
IMO there should be no limit in the amount of Slots an airline can have at a certain airport but small planes may only be used what they are for: small airfields. The rest would regulate itself I think.
I have only very little hope the team will tackle this problem. Afterall, it was not even mentioned after the team meeting they had in February and it is a persisting issue in all game worlds.
Simply locking out small aircraft from big airports certainly is the wrong approach. We don’t need more regulation by rules.
It should always be possible to operate even the smallest airframe into the biggest airport.
What we need is a dynamic pricing model. One that calculates the actual fees for a slot not only based on aircraft size and route but also based on slot occupancy (price should always be the result of supply and demand)
For example:
Operating a Cessna Caravan into a mega-airport with 5% slots occupied should be cheap. Doing the same at 95% occupancy should cost a LOT more. I’d offer my assistance in finding an applicable pricing model.
Simply locking out small aircraft from big airports
This is not what I said. I said small planes should be used what they are intended for: operations TO small airfields. The point of departure is irrelevant to this. Small planes should not be operated between big airports. I dont want small aircraft to be locked out. How would I otherwise serve 2-bar airports out of my HUB ?
This is not what I said. I said small planes should be used what they are intended for: operations TO small airfields. The point of departure is irrelevant to this. Small planes should not be operated between big airports. I dont want small aircraft to be locked out. How would I otherwise serve 2-bar airports out of my HUB ?
If my post would have been directed at you I’d have quoted you.
If my post would have been directed at you I'd have quoted you.
Since I was the only one mentioning the limited use of small planes it appeared that way. No need to quote someone for a response.
Since I was the only one mentioning the limited use of small planes it appeared that way. No need to quote someone for a response.
I like cheese :D