Demand in AS - Joke or something ??

English Boards General
1

Asian market is the fastest-growing airline market in the world. And AS replicates this to the tiniest detail. I launched an airline in the Philippines on Nicosia and I was amazed when I saw that with no competition on the route, default price, newest aircraft, great service and great hub and spoke system that ensures maximum possible feed and connectivity, my flights from Manila to Kuala Lumpur and Beijing receive …wait for it…wait for it… less than 10 passenger bookings per flight (double daily service).

MNL - PEK, MNL - KUL and KUL - PEK. Not even 20 passengers per day.

And then you tell me we don’t need market research in AS.

I can’t wait to hear the arguments for this one…

2

And you are the one and only on these routes and there is no competition (even with a stop somewhere)?

3

Also, like we’ve pointed out before, our (relative) traffic data is based on schedules that are several years old, so much of the Asia boom of recent years is not represented in our figures.

We are working on new traffic data though.

4

KUL is also served by one A321 once a day and it’s never full. PEK is not served by anyone but me. I hope I don’t have to remind you that in your game, non-stop flights are rated higher than ones with a stop.

That’s good to know. However, all of these cities are very large and highly rated (green bars) in the game. Having such a small demand between them is ridiculous to say the least.

I’m looking forward to new traffic data.

5

This thread must be a bad joke. You didn’t even start flights…

I’ll bring you some ideas of how this ‘game’ works:

The phrase “no competition” should mean no competition, if there’s an Airbus A321 (as it is at MNL-KUL) with good seats you can’t competite with a lame E-Jet, he can decrease prices while flying without loss while you lose much money with same prices. You surely have no competition from MNL to PEK, at least in the first view. When your offer is better than a flight via one of ‘Cathay Star’s’-hub than you will have good bookings, but this large airline can kill your bookings easily. There is also no guarantee for good bookings just because you have short transfer times planned (to be honest there are no “good” connections, when you just have 3 destinations besides your hub). Notice also, there’s a bunch of time needed when your small airline tries to take passengers (up to a week after inaugural flight).

With the actual customer configuration in AS it is just too easy to free the seats in other airplanes and fill the own. E.g. I have an rather large airline in Cambodia (another server) which lives with more than 90% (!!!) from transfer, means that less than 10% actually fly “my routes” but love to take my airline instead of another which may fly non-stop. :)

P.S. Your lack of IL isn’t helping you aswell.

6

FENCC01, I have a better understanding of this game than you might think.

*I’ll bring you some ideas of how this ‘game’ works:

Oh no you won’t.

*The phrase "no competition" should mean no competition

My bad, I was a bit angry when writing this so I forget about that one small competitor on one route.

*if there’s an Airbus A321 (as it is at MNL-KUL) with good seats you can’t competite with a lame E-Jet

What you experienced in real life doesn’t mean it counts in the game (LOL, especially load factors :lol:). Just because you might have flown flyBE and experienced how their E-jets are cramped doesn’t mean that’s how it is in the game. In AS, everyone get’s to choose among the same seats and later it all depends on ORS rating. On this particular route, Airbus’ flights are rated 99 and mine are 98. Virtually the same.

*he can decrease prices while flying without loss while you lose much money with same prices.

I have no clue what you wanted to say with this one. I hope you didn’t mean to tell me that you know this guy’s finances on the route. One thing is for sure, he did not decrease the prices when my airline entered the market.

*You surely have no competition from MNL to PEK, at least in the first view.

Good job, there’s another one correct. My flight is rated 97, the closest one is via PVG 69.

*When your offer is better than a flight via one of ‘Cathay Star’s’-hub than you will have good bookings, but this large airline can kill your bookings easily.

It doesn’t come even close to my non-stop services.

*There is also no guarantee for good bookings just because you have short transfer times planned

Not sure about that one, but might be correct. However, not relevant to the discussion anyway.

*(to be honest there are no "good" connections, when you just have 3 destinations besides your hub)

Sure, I wanted to see how larger markets without competition will play out before I add smaller ones. Isn’t that logical?

*Notice also, there’s a bunch of time needed when your small airline tries to take passengers (up to a week after inaugural flight).

Of course, I’ll wait and see if things improve.

And in the mean time close due to insolvency.

*I have an rather large airline in Cambodia (another server) which lives with more than 90% (!!!) from transfer, means that less than 10% actually fly "my routes" but love to take my airline instead of another which may fly non-stop.

Laymen call it "my routes", experts "origin and destination traffic", often reffered to as simply O&D.

*Your lack of IL isn’t helping you aswell.

Yeah, I thought origin and dest… soryy, my routes traffic (easier for you to understand) would be enough.

7

I see you’re p***** off.

  1. / 2. Competition is more than just “there’s is no one on this route, I’ll go there and will be successful”. And as martin already said; the demand of 2012 is maybe a “little” higher than it was 9 years ago. /// As I never flew an Embraer E-Jet (and in my opinion it looks very nice, at least from the outside) and so never flew exactly flew on an Airbus A321 (just A320) I can’t make a real decision this way but I know that an Airbus A321 always will surrender an E-Jet, that’s AS (at least now). Watching in his fleet list I see he has two high density A321 and two A321 with just 146 seats, when I see you have 72/16 seats in the E195, you possibly have “Economy seats” (correct if I’m wrong) and in this case he is pretty sure flying his 146 seater to MNL from KUL and has better seats in Y at least. I have to say I had myself an airline some years ago in KUL (but still same passenger numbers) with 250+ planes and still were not able to fill more than “some” Airbus A319 to Manila.

  2. I could. But I don’t need to. I know how capable an Airbus A321 is and an E195AR is. Also, I didn’t say he DID, but he COULD easier than you could.

  3. / 5. To PEK: I said you should wait. That’s rule #1 in AirlineSim. When he notices you are successful he will react… earlier or later. (NOT NOW, damn, again. Am I saying “right now”? lol)

  4. [color="#1C2837"][size="2"]great hub and spoke system that ensures maximum possible feed and connectivity[/size][/color] - That was a reply to that phrase, which tells me you think if you have a "hub & spoke"-system (with 3 planes… dude, really!) it would run from alone.

  5. That is logical, when you play this game for the first time. If you want to be successful you also have to fly to small airfields (which is most of the time much more effective because anyone is scared of losing money there) = no competition! ;)

  6. You won’t close when you have just invested in 2 E195 and a single Q400. There have to be some millions. You will nearly NEVER make from the first day money. That’s kinda impossible.

  7. Fascinating. Hold it short that I don’t have to explain every little s***. I’m enough into airline speach to know how this is “really” called. But we have some reader (they don’t write, but they read and my have the same problems like you) which want to know what we’re talking about.

If you come from the airline industry (you’re reacting on anything like “I KNOW THAT BETTER”) mustn’t it mean you have already understood a game (that’s what it is, not real life). When I see your airlines you didn’t understand how to play here, so why don’t you just let me explain how to play? :)

8

hm, wait for it…, here it comes:

today (newest data) for the route

MNL - PEK 1 to 3 flights daily

MNL - KUL 4 flights daily

KUL - PEK 1 to 3 flights daily

you really expect they are full, too?

this routes be flown by big airlines with many pax on their hubs

and this is the data of today and the data of the last years won’t look better

regards

9
10

That was kinda confusing, useless and… anything else in the same moment. For WHAT do you wanna have links that you can’t believe when we told you that?! :D

11

you’re soo lazy but for you here the links (and don’t they are lying :mad:):

MNL - KUL

flightstats

MNL - PEK

flightstats

KUL - PEK

flightstats

you can see, smallest common airplanes for this distances

CRY, little baby, cry <_<

12

So, what’s your point? All of those routes are served on daily/double daily/triple daily basis. I’d say there’s demand there.

13

but only with passengers "generated" by the hub of the airlines

if is there a real demand, other airlines would be flying these routes, like SIN-MNL, who not

have pax from connection flight

and the aircrafts they use would be much bigger

14

In fairness the aircraft operated on these routes aren’t that small and seem to be quite full (in r/l) kul-pek is flown by 777-200 and a 757 and the other two routes by 737-800 or A320/321. So I would have thought there would be enough demand on a point to point basis to get more than 10pax on a direct flight.

I’d be interested to know, merely out of interest. Whether the passenger data A/S gets is based on actual passengers traveling a route, number of seats offered on a route and whether it accounts for real life connections. For example does Dubai appear to generate high volumes of passengers because emirates has alot of connections out of there or do the A/S figures reflect the fact that many passengers travel from A to B via Dubai with Emirates?