Since the new features have been added to Nicosia, the majority of my economy long haul flights have gone from 100% full to 1% full (See attachment). Have I made bad decisions on my seating, or has demand been altered drastically?
The route in the image is LGW > JNB
Any thoughts would be appreciated, as I guess I need to change something! Previously I used Eco plus.
I just noticed my flights do not show in the ORS. Am I being stupid here?
Uhm, what seats you use now?
Ouch. Seats might have something to do with it, as people have talked about their ORS ratings dropping for a day or two.
Also, you haven't had an interlining partner go bankrupt or have them sign with another carrier? I've found that's sometimes the reason for a sudden drop in bookings.
Leisure plus, it is in the second attachment.
No IL partner has gone bankrupt, and I noticed after I posted this my flights are not showing in the ORS...
Check my post in "Strange ORS rating". I had 99 ORS with Economy seats (short and medium haul flights). I switched to leisure and my ORS is only 83.
If you had Economy Plus before, Leisure Plus would not cut it.
Also check out this diagram
and the "size of new seats" thread.
I wish I stayed with Economy seats on my 737s, and you probably should wish you had stayed with economy plus.
To get ORS99 in Economy you will need at least COMFORT PLUS.
BUT as I am finndig out now through testing ... with EcoPlus seats you could bump up the rates 35% and still have 99% ORS. With Comfort Plus you can bump up only 10%, then rating drop will start. With 35% rate bump your ORS will go down to 79 (from 99) with full onboard service and Comfort Plus seats. That is in Y.
I suggest you create a temporary new holding on a different server and test our routes and new airline configs. You will get 10 million in immediate delivery so lease ACs you use, create desired configs, test city pairs, rates, onboard service, and see what ORS you get. Activate schedule immediately so it goes live with the next ORS update (every 30 minutes). Then cancel the flights and clear schedule and do another test, and so on. Remember to deacativate your test server before 24 hour hits so you are not charged the credits.
I have globally reduced my economy prices by 5%, hopefully this will make a difference. However, surely my direct flights should still be in the ORS above journeys requiring 3 connections? Typical flight rating below for LGW > JNB..
I just put comfort seats in all my long haul aircraft. I guess you are right that leisure plus just doesn't cut it :( This, combined with the 5% price decrease might work. Might need to plan these things a little better next time haha
Your price performance ratio looks too low to me. At 2 bars you might struggle to get a good enough ORS rating for connecting flights, which you'll need to fill a plane from LGW->JNB.
Adjusting your price (lower) would improve your rating. Check out "flight assignments" in the route overview and you can see what differences changes will make.
To get ORS99 in Economy you will need at least COMFORT PLUS.
Not really. You need a good enough product offering and the right price, Seat type is just one part of this.
Your price performance ratio looks too low to me. At 2 bars you might struggle to get a good enough ORS rating for connecting flights, which you'll need to fill a plane from LGW->JNB.
Adjusting your price (lower) would improve your rating. Check out "flight assignments" in the route overview and you can see what differences changes will make.
Not really. You need a good enough product offering and the right price, Seat type is just one part of this.
You're right What I meant was at default price. You can do zero service and 2500km flight and Comfort plus at default price and you still get 99.
Hi,
seat ratings are based on the size of the seats. The old ecoplus is somewhere between the new comfort plus and the recliner shorthaul. If you had ecoplus and changed to comfort plus, you have to slightly ower your prices if you want to keep your old rating. If you had ecoplus and changed to recliner shorthaul, you can slightly increase your prices. If you had ecoplus and changed to a smaller seat, your ratings will have dropped so much that the flights appear somewhere on page 4 (ORS listing).
Flights appear on your own flight list within half an hour after they are scheduled (three days ahead). But they only appear on the ORS results three days before they have landed. I know that sounds a bit complicated :-)
Your flight is scheduled to depart tuesday at 13:00 hrs
It appeared on your flight list within half an hour.
That flight is scheduled to land tuesday at 21:00 hrs.
It will appear in the ORS results at 21:00 hrs this evening.
Your overall product rating is a bit low. The ORS used to show the x thousand best results. So your flight will probably appear on the ORS in due time, but you may have to look for the flight on page 5 of the ORS results ;-)
@caithes
The sudden two day drop in seat loads was not caused by the seats themselves. It must have been caused by changing from the old system to the new system. Something like calculating variables in the wrong order. After that hick-up, the ratings of the old seats went back to normal.
@rubiohiguey2000
My ecoplus seats allowed me to ask default + 33% on short flights (on-board service under 800 km only had 3 green bars) and default + 40% on flights over 1500 km (with 5 bar on-board service).
And you don't need comfort plus to get a 99 ORS rating. The smaller the seat, the less you can ask for your tickets (if you want a 99 rating).
Jan
Thanks all :D
My ecoplus seats allowed me to ask default + 33% on short flights (on-board service under 800 km only had 3 green bars) and default + 40% on flights over 1500 km (with 5 bar on-board service).
And you don't need comfort plus to get a 99 ORS rating. The smaller the seat, the less you can ask for your tickets (if you want a 99 rating).
Comfort Plus:
This is economy class
1 or 2 green bar for flight attendants
No additional seat pitch
5-star (green bars) popularity RJ
701 km - 4 star service
ORS
default price --- 52 / 99
+20% --- 39 / 93
+25% --- 36 / 88
+30% --- 32 / 83
+35% --- 30 / 79
1370 km - 4 star service
---for some strange reason same ORS as 701 km flight ---
2250 km - 5 star service
ORS
default price --- 55 / 99
+20% --- 44 / 96
+25% --- 41 / 91
+30% --- 38 / 86
+35% --- 35 / 81
I’ve had something similar happen to me after I changed seats, but only one way. On Gatow I fly EZE-MIA on a 787 that used to get 100% full on economy and business class. After I applied the new seats, EZE-MIA is still 100% full, but MIA-EZE is 30% full on economy. No IL partner has gone defunct, nor I have changed anything else but the seats. My flight still shows first on the ORS, even with a better rating than before (I’m using better seats). So I don’t know what the problem is. Any idea? Or is it a bug? I’ll try and post some images later.
...2250 km - 5 star service
ORS
default price --- 55 / 99
+20% --- 44 / 96
+25% --- 41 / 91
+30% --- 38 / 86
+35% --- 35 / 81
Hi,
default price is not the minimum price. If you use small seats, you have to lower prices if you want a high rating. Airlines who used the (old) standard seats often lowered their prices below default if they needed a 99 rating in order to compete.
As for your current seats, if you get a 96 rating when you sell the tickets at default + 20%, you can sell them at default + 10% and you will still have a 99 rating. But I guess you have checked at exactly what percentage your rating starts dripping ;-)
Jan
Hi Jan I know that lowering price increases ORS rating. I was able to get 98/99 with Economy seats (first step above Stadard seats in old config) and good onboard service.
Also what I am trying to say is that sobelair mentioned that with Ecoplus + 35% increase in rate he could still maintain 99 ORS in the past.
That will no longer be possible with Comfort Plus seat + 35% increase. In this new case (as opposed to Ecoplus) you will only get 81 ORS if you increase price by 35% (as opposed to Ecoplsu which still had 99 with 35% increase).
Hi,
I may be telling something stupid because I don't know if and where the exact size of the new seats is published... bit isn't the comfort+ seat smaller than the old ecoplus ?
Jan
Jan,
I go by this:
http://community.airlinesim.aero/topic/5654-size-of-the-new-seats/#entry44859
using 737 measurements (because that is what concerns me).
There is a 6% difference in seat pitch/size between Ecoplus and Comfort Plus in favor of Ecoplus.
So if we go by what Caithes posted, that 33% rate increase in SH with Ecoplus seats still resulted in 99 ORS, we get:
1.33/1.06 = 1.25 ... this means a 25% increase in base rate with Comfort plus seat should still result in 99 ORS, which is not the case: it results in an average ORS of 90.
So if you run Comfplus you can only charge about 5% more for Comfplus before your ORS suffers. If you compete against somebody who uses Ecoplus + 33% rackup of rate, you are in clear competitive disadvantage, if you want to maintain 99 ORS.
As was stated in other threads, it is becoming a question of profitability vs ORS rating, with the new cabin config and new ratings.
WHICH, at the end may not be a bad thing (in real life airlines make decisions: do we put bigger seats and charge higher price, but there is only so much we can charge in economy), or do we put smaller seats, pack in more pax and charge less? It's the mathematical question, question of demand, desirability, etc.
BUT, and I put the big BUT in here, this is fine ONLY when all players use the new config, so somebody is not disadvantaged against other players NETWORK-WIDE. If somebody runs a tight airline on a server from Beijing where 99.5% of slots are used, what need does that player have to get new seat config, if under current system the old config brings him as high and even higher rating than new cabin config, while having the legal possibility to charge more before being negatively affected for ORS ratings and therefore the booking ratio he gets?
The new cabin config should get OBLIGATORY on older servers. For example, put in Dec 31, 2013 midnight deadline. All planes that have not been changed, will be forced upon a standard default config (we know AS default config exists for all planes already). That way there is no disadvantage. I put an example: I run an older M87 in one of the older servers, as the aircraft nicely fits shorter runway. That AC is running in Economy/Ecoplus combination. My Economy class, with a 4 and 5-star onboard service (depending on distance to destination) gets 98 and 99 rating. What incentive do I have to change cabin config of this plane, I am having 99 rating in and respectably high rating in C, and plane is getting full loads in both Y and C, WITH THE OLD CNFIG. So what incentive do I have to change? NONE WHATSOEVER. So unless its obligatory to change config by certain date, we will have HUGE imbalance on older servers.
If you browse back, you can see I cried loud in B737-600 thread and defended for the aircraft to stay put as it is. But that is a bit different, because the new server (Aspern) was launched with certain specs and everybody had the same chance in the beginning to get that aircraft. In that particular case, I consider adjusting the 736 config unjust. Those who cried against it are people that got more expensive planes such as Airbus and were paying more for the same pax capacity and even paying more for fuel than 736. But in this particular case, we are facing older servers being affected, where new players (and existing ones who are still building up their airlines) are disadvantageously affected by having to compete with new, less profitable configs against older and more profitable configs. In this particular case, players have no option to go back to the old config, while in 736 case anybody can get that plane (still) regardless of its current or anterior config.
I'm trying to upload the pictures, but I don't know how to do it... help please?
I'm trying to upload the pictures, but I don't know how to do it... help please?
You have to first upload the pic somewhere (e.g. tinypic) and then use the Insert Image icon and paste the image URL