No I am not frustrated, sorry if it came out that way. I am just trying to say that hurriedly implementing something (in this case high-density seating ORS) would make it even more difficult for new players to succeed on old worlds, especially because of overcapacity and because of inability to use “money-generation technique” of high pricing and low density seating, so much required before reaching a critical mass on crowded old gameworld. It does not take a rocket scientist to see you have more chance to succeed if you can break even with 50 pax than if you need 90 paxto break even, and on top of that you have overcapacity present by the competition. All the while running 99 ORS. If now you can try to run capacity card against the competition with value-based-OSD, imagine if you can run double the capacity with only half the slots. Which new startup would have a chance? That was the point I wanted to transmit.
As I wrote, Xiguan will face this same problem in roughly a year, year and a half. You will have slots, but you will not have passengers (sufficient to break even). That’s a contrast to current old gameworlds, where you still can get passengers (sufficient to break even) but don’t have slots.
But current ORS model allows you to set up airlines AK-Style (Hello Little Rock, Howdy Wichita, What’s up Halifax) even on crowded gameworlds (when you know what you are doing) and be breaking even from start with strategically scheduled flights, and you can do fine with edge slots on slot-restricted airports with such model, no need for prime slots. Again that’s all thanks to current ORS model. You would not be able to fly 170 pax 320neos across the ocean in “modified/new ORS” model, soon you would find out your Q400 with 92 ORS is no match against 99 ORS even after 3 booking rounds and you have not generated sufficient direct pax to pay a jet, simply because low pricing required to maintain 99 ORS does not pay for the jet. And because you have just a handful of aircraft (and cannot get more becaus eyou are not generating money, nor are 10% leases available anymore) you can neither generate connection passengers. Your foray into the “kraken-dominated” gameworld would end right there on day 4.
Honestly speaking, I think not many players that came to grow to a decent size on old gameworlds who stepped into those gameworlds when they already were few years old, who most often than not started in secondary airport slowly growing in size awaiting their moment of major liquidation by competitor, all those they would not be able to succeed if it was not for the value-based-ORS. And some people posting here want to take away this possibility from future players…
What you describe here does not, to me, sound any different to any other current old game world for a player who tries to set up shop in the most competitive places.
Again, I believe trimming down the pull effect for networks and scaling up costs for inefficient operations (e.g. interlining galore) can reward the newbies airline. A smaller airline will have a slimmer cost structure compared to the “kraken” and with that they will be able to offer lower priced direct flights, especially from small airports.
Whatever the case may be, ultimately this stuff needs to be tried and tested. It took ages before we got any changes to the game mechanics as we did now with the new ORS and I don’t see any commitment from the developer to go further down that road. Or any AS road for that matter
No, it makes a big difference. I’m with Rubio here.
Right now a newbie could enter the market with some 30-seat CR7 and earn money.
With the capped seat ratings (“new” ORS) you’d need to fill maybe 50-60 seats.
At the same demand and comparable number of ORS entries, guess what happens? A newbies nightmare.
That said, capping ratings adds fun to a new server but is far away from having a new ORS.
There aint much of a difference as long as the logic of demand distribution doesn’t change.
So then the new airline uses a ERJ, a CR1/2 or a Prop. I don’t see the issue.
Which is exactly what I wrote. The new ORS is a good first step but networks need to be much less attractive for the virtual passenger, unless the whole route is priced differently.
I did not say the new ORS is the end all be all. At some point though, things need to be fixed step by step. If everyone always comes on here saying “but if you change this, then that wont work”, this game never gets anywhere. Never mind the fact this game is so far taking less than baby steps towards changes.
Wuohaa … Networks are the “selling point” of AirlineSim, its competitive advantage, it’s unique selling point. Remove that and you’ve got AirwaySim or make them function just a little and you’ve got Airline Empires. Who would pay AirlineSim for something they can get cheaper or for free at other games?
It’s the very complex network scheme that makes AirlineSim unique. What AK was referring to in demand distribution was not networks but rather frequency. Without networks or with very little network effect you would be stuck to major airports as they are today, unable to build airline in Little Rock or fly transatlantic scissors from St.Johns.
Other airline games/Sims try to move towards connecting passengers because that’s an awesome feature everyone (at those games) want, yet their devs don’t know how to tackle such a challenge, and you want to remove or depreciate its importance at one and only airline simulation that has it.
Unfortunately Helix, doing what you just described would make AirlineSim a bad combination of AirwaySim and Airline Empires which very few people would pay for.
So how would such tuned networks work? What is your idea, please explain in more detail how would you imagine such modifiednetworks, the general framework, how it should behave, what should it accomplish? Thank you.
Ideally, I would like to see the “critical mass” factor trimmed down. Simply having a large network should not enable a player to be de facto “immune” to competition.
The way I experienced this game, it did not matter if an airline operated next to mine or not. I would not notice it’s existence, other than running out of slots.
Maybe I am too focused on networks being the primary reason for a lack of a competitive element, it’s just the first thing that comes to mind.
No no, what I mean is can you please write how would you imagine the whole thing would work, the whole framework you have imagined would be the optimal solution. “Trimming down” does not not give me much idea about anything, unfortunately.
Hmm not sure what you are looking for then. I’m a paying customer, not the developer who gets paid to develop along the lines of customers wishes or their own roadmap (irrelevant of my individual viewpoint, of course).
For me to come up with definite ways of how to achieve this or that is rather futile, at least within the scope of this thread / forum.
Also, I have a feeling you’re just waiting for me to write something you can pick apart
Agreed. I’m just not a fan of messing with old servers just because of such minor change (seat rating caps) and I thought that’s what you were voting for.
Personally the ORS system, whilst slightly unrealistic, is still the best comprimise we have right now. I would love a slight tweak, to make it more realistic, but nothing too major.
Most simulation games are not realistic in some way, even some games. Flight simulators, football games etc, Football manager with barrow in the premier league?
They way I look at it, is in the worlds this game creates pax behaviour is different.
From my observation, new ORS greatly slows down the grows for most of airlines in Otto compare to the old ones. Nowadays these airlines need approximately twice the time to grow up a basic and competitive domestic network.
For newbie players, I don’t know if they are satisfied with the progress compared to the time lapsed or feel a bit too hard to start up without “value-based-strategy”, but I know LCC is quite good feature for quite a lot of players, and it should be a part of the realistic feature of this game.
For AS, I think the pros is quite obvious, they can keep player stay longer by slowing down the average grows rate and it worked. Despite the players in Otto V is not maximum 1200 as in Otto IV, AS should expect an increase in revenue regardless of rising in credits. BUT the cons we may be expect is that based on the same demand, same slot, I believe most of the mega airport will end up with surplus slot but no pax to distribute in the long term. It is a very direct consequence of a much higher seat supply on every single flight.
Kind of expecting what will happen if AS rolls out long term server this year with new ORS system and long-awaited demand update. If it really comes true, the new ORS onboard long-term game, I just hoping either the potential pax will be scaled up based on the baseline of new demand patch or restrict the slots globally (absolutely not 2 times). BTW, I also believe if they did prepared to roll out demand patch this year as they promised, it probably will first test on the next temp server.
I love the new ORS I think its a great way to make the game more realistic and really has me wanting to spend more time on the game. however, is it possible to do something like EasyJet or Spirit? Currently I’m doing more Legacy style airline but I think being an LCC would be fun if possible.
This is not really possible, because the focus in AS (from an ORS perspective) is largely on networks. You could do some hybrid airline but not a true LCC or only Point-2-Point airline.
You can build a sort of Ryanair clone with a hub at a smaller airports and have lower operating costs (landing fees, etc.) but in the end you’d still need a network.
Additionally, a cabin configuration with only Y seats will put you at a revenue disadvantage per flight. Business class will usually give you a much better profit margin which contributes towards the profitability of you entire operation.
The new ORS system patches some quirks but it still does not allow for much “diversity”.
Maybe a little bit off topic but as you mentioned landing fees I got quite curious because I have never seen a list of costs for landing fees which I was always wandering if they are really different in this game. Could never figure it out. Does anyone know something more specific? Because if this is the case it would actually really make sense for some airlines focusing on smaller airports.
