IPO

The question was if old companies on the old servers might have the same problems with IPO’s. You need around 20mio shareholders equity before you can buy shares on the market on every server. On the old servers the old companies will be able to buy shares since they have more then 20 mio shareholders equity. Newly founded companies on every server need now to increase their Value before they can buy shares so every new company is treated the same on every server.

Hi,

how long does it take before you double your equity from 10 to 20 million ? A month ? That means new airlines have to wait one month before they can support the IPO of another airline. Come on guys… be serious. If a new airline has a few millions to spare, it is more profitable to invest that money in an extra plane. Much more profitable.

I have seen airlines that doubled their balance value by going public… and a few days later, AS owned all those shares. The new rule may not be perfect, but at least it stops the cheating.

And if you think the new rule is not realistic… please explain to me how realistic it was that a new company received 10 million dollar to play with, invested that money in the IPO of another airline, and then "threw away" that investment by deleting their company

Jan

Ok, let’s make this quite clear. I have a holding on Tempelhof which founded a very successful enterprise a year ago.

Here is the balance sheet of the subsidiary:


Expenses 	Earnings

Account 	Balance 	Account 	Balance

6030 	Fuel 	1,762,363 AS$ 	5000 	Passenger revenue 	7,589,930 AS$

6120 	Passenger handling fees 	408,265 AS$ 	5010 	Cargo revenue 	235,539 AS$

6121 	Aircraft handling fees 	89,672 AS$ 	5120 	Passenger handling revenue 	0 AS$

6130 	On-board services 	528,210 AS$ 	5140 	Cargo logistic revenue 	0 AS$

6140 	Cargo logistics fees 	37,775 AS$ 	5400 	Leasing revenue 	0 AS$

6160 	Maintenance 	762,171 AS$ 	5490 	Miscellaneous revenue 	0 AS$

6300 	Salaries 	0 AS$ 	5710 	Interest revenue 	0 AS$

6400 	Training 	0 AS$ 	5780 	Dividend revenue 	0 AS$

6420 	Severance pay 	0 AS$ 	5784 	Stock trade revenue 	0 AS$

6510 	Depreciation of buildings 	0 AS$                  

6520 	Depreciation of flight equipment 	0 AS$                  

6710 	Leasing installments 	954,125 AS$                  

6731 	Airport landing fees 	70,646 AS$                  

6732 	Air traffic control fees 	230,499 AS$                  

6870 	Marketing 	0 AS$                  

6900 	Insurance premiums 	0 AS$                  

6990 	Miscellaneous expenses 	0 AS$                  

7460 	Stock trade losses 	0 AS$                  

7510 	Interest expenditure 	16,000 AS$                  

Total 	4,859,727 AS$ 	Total 	7,825,469 AS$

Profit 	2,965,742 AS$ 	Loss 	0 AS$

Balance sheet Assets 	Liabilities

Account 	Balance 	Account 	Balance

530 	Buildings 	6,088,827 AS$ 	3000 	Equity 	0 AS$

700 	Flight equipment 	283,083,999 AS$ 	3100 	Shareholders equity 	564,105,301 AS$

1300 	Investment 	6,000,000 AS$ 	4250 	Loan 	170,337,692 AS$

2800 	Bank account 	38,584,110 AS$                  

2900 	Security deposit 	405,295,240 AS$                  

Loss 	0 AS$ 	Profit 	2,965,742 AS$

Total 	739,052,177 AS$ 	Total 	737,408,736 AS$

simulogics

/code]


Here is the balance sheet of the holding company:

[code]Expenses 	Earnings

Account 	Balance 	Account 	Balance

6030 	Fuel 	0 AS$ 	5000 	Passenger revenue 	0 AS$

6120 	Passenger handling fees 	0 AS$ 	5010 	Cargo revenue 	0 AS$

6121 	Aircraft handling fees 	0 AS$ 	5120 	Passenger handling revenue 	0 AS$

6130 	On-board services 	0 AS$ 	5140 	Cargo logistic revenue 	0 AS$

6140 	Cargo logistics fees 	0 AS$ 	5400 	Leasing revenue 	0 AS$

6160 	Maintenance 	0 AS$ 	5490 	Miscellaneous revenue 	0 AS$

6300 	Salaries 	0 AS$ 	5710 	Interest revenue 	0 AS$

6400 	Training 	0 AS$ 	5780 	Dividend revenue 	0 AS$

6420 	Severance pay 	0 AS$ 	5784 	Stock trade revenue 	0 AS$

6510 	Depreciation of buildings 	0 AS$          		

6520 	Depreciation of flight equipment 	0 AS$          		

6710 	Leasing installments 	0 AS$          		

6731 	Airport landing fees 	0 AS$          		

6732 	Air traffic control fees 	0 AS$          		

6870 	Marketing 	0 AS$          		

6900 	Insurance premiums 	0 AS$          		

6990 	Miscellaneous expenses 	0 AS$          		

7460 	Stock trade losses 	0 AS$          		

7510 	Interest expenditure 	0 AS$          		

Total 	0 AS$ 	Total 	0 AS$

Profit 	0 AS$ 	Loss 	0 AS$

Balance sheet Assets 	Liabilities

Account 	Balance 	Account 	Balance

530 	Buildings 	1,537,798 AS$ 	3000 	Equity 	16,640,325 AS$

700 	Flight equipment 	0 AS$ 	3100 	Shareholders equity 	0 AS$

1300 	Investment 	13,736,717 AS$ 	4250 	Loan 	0 AS$

2800 	Bank account 	583,948 AS$          		

2900 	Security deposit 	781,861 AS$          		

Loss 	0 AS$ 	Profit 	0 AS$

Total 	16,640,325 AS$ 	Total 	16,640,325 AS$  

I have NEVER engaged in ANY CHEATING and the holding has succeeded up until now in building up an own equity of 16 million with the 1 million start capital, left over from the 9 million for the subsidiary, but the new rules will not let my holding buy any shares, even though it is owner of a 740 million AS$ company!!!

Are you trying to tell me that this is fair??? Are you trying to tell me that this is realism? I’m sorry but the people who think that they have to wreck the game for 99% of the honest players in order to stop the 1% of dishonest players should think again about what they have done, which is to create a situation where the handful of holdings with an equity greater $AS20 million can buy and sell shares with impunity, while all other holdings with an equity less than this arbitrary limit are effectively shut out of the business.

This all means that holdings make absolutely no sense whatsoever. It would make more sense and be fairer if holdings and the stock market were simply abolished from the game, rather than have new players waste their money on them.

I don’t know why you’re so upset. You can still play the stock market as a “mini-game” inside airlinesim. The only difference is that you have to play it with your company (may it be the holding or its subsidiary) which has already proven to be a “real” airline.

I do understand that an interesting aspect of this game is/was to play a holding being active on the stock market only. But I would say that this option was used by less than 1% of the players, esp. if they haven’t another holding with some “real” airline business around. The amount of people “boosting” their airline with fake holdings through the stock market was definitely higher than 1%.

Just look at meigs: The stock market was crowded after the two-week period, many airlines had a successful IPO. Now, after the restart, with a number of airlines which already hit the 20 million mark and being able to buy shares there’s not even one successful IPO. I wonder why…

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font][size="3"][font="Calibri"]Open Letter to AirLine Sim Administrators.

[/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font][font="Calibri"][size="3"]Lately, with the arrival of the new ‘’Meigs patch’’ the possibility of borrowing money and some Stock Market operations have been drastically cut down. [/size][size="3"]I personally understand the fact that AS had to do something about players engaging in some loop holes found in the game itself and voluntarily abusing them. [/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font][font="Calibri"] [/font]

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font][size="3"][font="Calibri"]Thing is, there is difference in trying to close some loop holes and stall the game to a snail pace… This being said I also understand that AS creators have built the game with the intention to be as close as possible to reality, this being the essence of its succes. To say that AS is not a Stock Market game is also thru but in this kind of simulation, and if you want to keep it as a quality simulation, a Stock Market option is a must. [/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font][font="Calibri"][size="3"]In any case, and to try to keep this as short as possible these new implements are just stalling the game to the point that players frustration is growing much faster than happiness therefore giving way to a faster loss of interest in AS altogether and leading ultimately to faster loss of customers[/size][size="3"](leading also to ‘’bad game’’ reputation)… Now don’t missunderstand me, I do acknowledge the fact that going back to the old way isn’t an alternative, but AS administration should seriously look into this matter and try to reassess its position. For starter it should be clearly explained how long it takes for a new holding, or company, to be able to invest in the Stock Market? How long does a company need to be active before being eligible for loans? What is the equity ratio needed to access loans? How much money is accessible thru that ratio? These are all questions which answers are publicly accessible in the real world and should also be in AS… [/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font][size="3"][font="Calibri"]And as far as game friends are concerned I don’tsee any cheating or low blows if one of your friends tries to help you in making your IPO register in the Stock Market. In reality, there’s no such thing as to put quotas on the number of shares any individual can buy from the Stock Market. Actually just establishing a time limit (probation period) on any new Holding, or Company, in order to be able to invest in the SM is tough enough to close the Stock Market loop hole. The only existing rule, we are actually informed of, regarding the Stock Market is that your company needs to be in existence for at least 2 weeks to start an IPO. Well why don’t you rule that any new Holding, or Company, can’t invest in the Stock Market before 1 month of existence… [/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font][size="3"][font="Calibri"]Fine if you want to change your rulings, but paying customers have the right be clearly informed of the substance of any changes and understand what kind of impact they will have, in the future compared to how it was, on their way of playing this game. [/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font][size="3"][font="Calibri"]Regards!

[/font][/size][size=“3”][font=“Calibri”]PolarBear :ph34r: [/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"] [/font]

The difference is that the holding is locked out of the IPOs, and there is no good reason why an enterprise which is making money operating flights should bother with the stock market, even less subscribing to IPOs.

You have figures for this? A quick look at the enterprise directory suggests that at least 10% of the operations are holdings.

You have figures for this?

The example of Meigs shows you why the new rule does not work. Nobody with airline making 20 million in the space of weeks is going subscribe to somebody else’s IPO when they can invest the money better in their own operation. The result is that not one single IPO has succeeded on Meigs, and hence there’s no stock market to play as a "mini-game". It’s a Catch-22 situation.

We had - and to be honest - it made us sick how many people were cheating and there is no real chance to separate the cheaters from the fair players.

If AS as figures to this practice you know exactly how many and WHO was cheating…Again in Meigs the fact that you can only open one holding per household you automatically close the multiple Holdings created just to finance aircraft buyings and SM illegal investement and this procedure alone is good enough to close the loop hole… You say that before the patch there were cheaters but there was NO rulings writen anywhere to the effect that this action was illegal(as there are no rules written nowhere actually). I I come back to my open letter in letting you know that if you want some rulings to be followed and any omission to be punishable, somebody has to write a chart of rules and this chart must be accessible to all players…

I can only agree with Polarbear on this one. I have been playing for a few years now, and never cheated, i was also member of the UAB so i have seen some of the internals, but punishing all players is something that is not really nice.

The one Holding position is a good example how you can stop cheating, also Multi IP checks are good, last but not least, there should be a system in place that the stock trade is turned back if the company that sold stock or bought stock disappears after say 2 weeks. this will make it more difficult to cheat. Because the cheater is punished with the turn back of his enterprise at the moment of cheating, loosing time and efforts.

Anyways lets get things back to normal

http://en.airlinesim…eral/Game_RulesWhat’s about this?

Linked on the registration-form by the way …

Thank you, I stand corrected on that one… Fact is, this doesn’t change the global game situation. But to add to my comment maybe you should insert this link directly ingame somewhere it would be impossible to miss and could be used at anytime for further reference by any players who wonder if their practice is legal or not according to game rules…

Also I see by reading a lot of the postings over this IPO topic and probably others that there is a lot of people angry about the new procedures, but nobody really seems to bring in viable solutions, which is what I’m trying to do here. There should be an open topic excatly for that purpose. For people who are willing to partcicipate in somekind of negotiation with AS Admin in the effect to bring some viable solutions to each player/admin side of the board…

Why are you feeling so offended about not being subscribed an IPO? Get 20 Mil equity then you can subscribe!

On the other hand, I feel extremely offended when someone use IPO cheat to boost their airline - which one of my airline was ruined due to the existence of such competitor.

So I am VERY DELIGHTED that such new rule is now implemented!

Dear friend,

Either you didn’t read what I’ve written or you didn’t understand the essence of what I wrote. I’m not against or offended to any new ruling that would closed down some lope holes in the software, and I do agree with you on that point, except that theres a minimum that could have been done to shut down these loop holes, not penalysing everybody like now… Which effect is actually slowing down the growth paceof the game to close to 0, personnally I don’t intend to play this game for a year in order to have acces to the stock market or any loan options, and understand me I never cheated in anyway and don’t intend to do it in the future but somebody has to do something in reviving just a bit the growth possibilities and pace of the game.

Regards!

PolarBear

I am not violating the Terms and Conditions that I agreed to, it is AirlineSim that is violating the conditions.

I have one holding on Tempelhof with one solely owned daughter company.

Since last month I have exactly the same constellation on Meigs.

NOWHERE does it say that it is illegal for a holding with one solely owned daughter to subscribe to IPOs.

If the owners of AirlineSim think that my holding has been doing anything illegal up until now by subscribing to IPOs, then they should come out and say it.

If it’s not illegal then I protest that AirlineSim is arbitrarily doing damage to my business.

Now you are really kidding, aren’t you?

PolarBear,

let me suggest that a solution to the cheating problem might be a rule that a holding (or any enterprise) has to be in existence for a minimum period - say 1 month - before it can engage in any stock market transactions. Unless I am misunderstanding something, this should block the fly-by-night operations, correct?

That’s exactly what I wrote in my open letter, a substantial probation period for any new Holding and/or Company should close up the loop hole, even though that actually in Meigs this loop hole is already shut down because of the single Holding ruling already in effect in that world… Anybody caught opening a new Holding for the sole purpose of pushing one of is Company on the SM or try to transfer any aircraft from their companies to the new Holding, should be thrown out of the Game World IPSO FACTO with no refund if any credits (real money) are involve. I would be the first one to adhere to this policybut then if this policy would come into effect the calculation matrix of all other parameters, Stock Market, Company Equity, Loans Accessiibilaty, should be brought back to a reasonnable level

P.B.

Sorry, but a simple time limit is no solution in this case as the people just wait two more weeks before starting the IPO - so what? Nothing will change except that we will earn some bucks more on the cheater - not a nice conclusion at all!

Ok so we want to play that kind of game, do we… what are you going to do in this case then… Let’s say a player open’s an account from is residence and then open’s a second one from is working place and can also open as many as he wants from unrelated remote location in order for you guys not to be able to retrace him buy the IP address… You see this problem has no solution there will always be a way around it… so why do you really bother in hitting hard on the honest player…

And yes there’s always going to be a smart Alec that will try to go around the system, but by instigating a probation period of 1 or 2 months if necessary this PERIOD is going to be a deterrent to any player who wants to go the short way in boosting is operation thru a boggus Holding, because this is what we are really talking about, shortening the time period to get acces to money and if you cancel this advantage of shortenning the time period, well I’m not saying it will cut the cheating to none but it will sure cut it down a lot. … Right now I feel that the answers given to me are part of a witch hunt, now I don’t see any wish or will on behalf of AS to come to its sense in trying to find a better solution to this situation… Ah! well I don’t really care; I tell you (and don’t think that this is a threat on my behalf because I have absolutly no control on this situation) in the mid to long run you will lose customers on this issue and once gone I don’t think they will do great publicity for the game… Really nice game this was but I can see now that the people pulling the string are in fact really stuburn and don’t seem to have any open mind on this subject, systematicly closing every open channel on every solution proposed to them…

One thing, in the real world, sometimes it pays to listen a little bit to your customers. A satisfied customer is always your best pubilcity…

You don’t have to write in bold - this doesn’t makes your arguments better. The same to the “I am the costumer and my opinion is the opinion of all costumer”-attitude ;)

Sure - we know that if someone is clever enough we can not find a multi-account. It would be ignorant to tell anything else. But we are still talking about airlinesim and if you dare to take a look into the reality, you won’t find a start-up airline on the stock market. You are demanding a waiting period which is quite longer than the time you need with the current system to invest. And as written before - the waiting period itself is well discussed but no solution for the problem, which is no witch hunt but reality we found on the first Meigs start. So if you have another idea - let us know - that’s why the forums exists.