Yes...
But each game is about logic inside
Where is the logic when you have the best rating on the route and 9 pax on BUD-LIS route. ok. I will try to make perfect service and then will see
I like AS for connections. But if really some aspects a too unrealistics
Do you know anybody who is travelling from BUD to LIS? I assume not. You will not have many passengers on that route as long as you have not all possible connections to other places. Which ones? Trial and error and some more research...
There is a lot of logic in AS. Maybe the AS logic does not correspond 100% to real life logic, but it’s a simulation so it simulates certain aspects as best as it can while some others may be a bit lacking. But there is a very strong logic in how AS operates indeed.
It takes a lot of time and effort to find part of this logic, and another important task is also getting to know people.
Once you find 50% of logic on your own, you will run an OK airline. Then, alliances will accept you and within alliances if you are lucky and alliance members are helpful and communicate a lot, you could get to learn the other 50% of the logic.
It will not be done overnight, prepare yourself that it can take you to be able to run an OK airline a year, and in 2 years maybe you can be getting invitation to alliances where more knowledge will likely be revealed.
Yes...
But each game is about logic inside
Where is the logic when you have the best rating on the route and 9 pax on BUD-LIS route. ok. I will try to make perfect service and then will see
I like AS for connections. But if really some aspects a too unrealistics
I've explained the logic already, it is up to you to listen. Lets put some numbers in it. Please bare in mind I don't know the real "AS" numbers, just going off whats publicly available.
Wizzair operate BUD-LIS 4x a week
TAP operate BUD-LIS 6x a week
Thats 10 flights, all operating Airbuses of various sizes and configs. Assuming they are 100% full, and roughly 150 seaters, that gives 1500 pax per week, or 214 pax per day. 214 passengers distributed among 5100 routings is 0.04. Even with ASs multiple by 4 rule (I'm not sure if it exists here or not), that would give 0.16 pax per day per routing. So getting 3 is fairly good I would say?
You complain about unrealism but I am telling you AS is the most accurate simulation you will get (12 years in airlines), it has its quirks but it is a game like any other. Learn to play the game. Did I complain the sonic the hedgehog could jump 5 times his height? No...its part of the game mechanism, and if you want to succeed you have to accept the mechanism.
Yes but it's a little unfair that ratings less than 50% also have some demand…
And also it doesn’t matter the date of flight. in AS we can flight only once a 3 days, and the loading will be the best?
Yes but it's a little unfair that ratings less than 50% also have some demand…
And also it doesn’t matter the date of flight. in AS we can flight only once a 3 days, and the loading will be the best?
For this reason even routings that do have lower rating or have certain detour also get bookings.
And also - 1500 per week in real life goes on direct flight, not to 5100 connections.
we don't how many pax from BUD to LIS goes by connections in real life. And we dont now howmany pax on direct flights a really connected.
BUT due to AS logic medium-haul flight have no sens. It's better to fly a lot of domestic routes.
I think that a small penalty for connections in loading model could approve it easearly. Or a penalty in loading model to all flights with rating below 50. So the traffic divedes between 50-100 rating flights mostly goes to 80-100 ratings/
And the mail question is price. it s really strange that is not affected on loads...
In real life price have a big motivation, and a lot of connecrionth on route BUD-LIS throw Moscow looks like too long in time and too expencive in pockets.
It is done exactly as you write, actually.
The difference is that distribution is done based on ORS rating and not on direct indirect basis. 99 or 100 ORS rating gets the most passengers, then 95, then 90, then 80, then 70 and so on. Prop aircraft like ATR are limited to 92 ORS, connection flights top out at low 80’s. If your direct flight has an ORS rating of 78, and a connecting flight of a competitor has an ORS rating of 82, that flight connection will get more passengers than your direct flight.
That’s why it was suggested to you to improve seats and service, and improve service class image by mood and better flight attendants, better aircraft and newer planes, because then you can get 99 ORS rating. You can also get to 99 ORS rating with standard or leisure setas and low on board service level, but you need to charge much much less than the default price.
If there is no direct flight competition on the route you should have at least 90 to 95 ORS rating. If the is competition, it will most likely have 99 ORS rating, so you need one too.
It was already suggested to you here multiple times, but you always seem to try to find a problem elsewhere than your own rating, a result of your setup of seats, service, and prices, instead of listening to what more experienced players have to say to you.
Don’t be offended, but it’s called reading with comprehension and ignoring the reality just because you have your mind already made up about what that reality should look like.
it's my choise. I can play or not play the game. And I want to understand the logic. If i think the logic is wrong I won't play at all.
What is the strategy? best seats? best service? no metter where to fly and so one. no marketing,
and, I asked a quetion about the game. Thanks for your answer, I already try a lot of it and waiting for results. But it's a forum, we can write down here out thoughts
And I think it is my right to see the reality as i like. we are not robots. we are people.
As stated the best strategy is trial, error and experience. If you are getting 3 passengers for a flight I would suggest that is an error, so move on and trial another flight.
Of course it is your absolute right and personal choice to see AS reality as you seem fit. You were given hints, suggestions and even direct advice how to make your airline more feasible. It is your decision to accept those suggestions or not.
It took me forever to work out how to make money in the simulation. The best lesson I learnt is patience. Its a marathon not a sprint. What I use to do is lease every cheap plane that was available before I have sorted out my routes etc etc. I flying routes just because I thought they seemed realistic as well, not based on the actual demand I was getting.
You are on my server ive seen you open a station at my hub airport and I have taken a look into your airline.
I am bored so I will help you out as I love this game and I want you to enjoy it too - If I was you I would do the following:
My routes would be the following: DOMESTIC (Goy-Per, Debrecan, Batalon etc)
Waves 1 2 3 4
HA-AAK EMB140 DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC
HA-AAL EMB140 DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC
HA-AAN EMB140 DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC - BUD - DOMESTIC
HA-AAO EMB140 BUCHAREST - BUD - PRAGUE - BUD - ROME - BUD - PRAGUE - BUD - BUCHAREST
HA-AAP ATR72 ZAGREB - BUD - VIENNA - BUD - BUCHAREST - BUD - VIENNA - BUD - ZAGREB
HA-AAM 737-700 ISTANBUL - BUD - FRANKFURT - BUD - ISTANBUL - BUD - MUNICH- BUD - ISTANBUL
HA-AAJ - 737-700 TEL AVIV - BUD - WARSAW - BUD - ROME - BUD - WARSAW - BUD - TEL AVIV
Make sure all waves land at the same time in BUD and go out after an hour from the arrival time to make the connections.
If you cannot do 5 flights outbound in a day - just take off the last rotation and mess around with it. Or get African Maintenance Systems as your Mainenance.
Make sure your Maintenance ratio is over 100% as well, as close to 125% as possible but above 100%
With the above you will be connecting East to west (EG turkey to Germany) back east then west and back east. Through this network PAX will be able to get from Istanbul via BUD to Prague, Frankfurt, Zagreb, Vienna and warsaw as well all domestic destinations within Hungary. Vise versa PAX could go from Warsaw to Tel AVIV, Istanbul, Rome, Bucharest and all the domestic if you get me.
This is if you were to keep as you are, if you restart you could get 4 Sukhoi Superjet100s to cover HA-AAO, HA-AAP, HA- AAM and HA-AAJ routes (they are on the market cheap on Ellinikon) and get 3 ATR 42s to cover the 3 domestic airports in Hungary for under AS10,000,000
These would be more profitable and you can get better seats in the them.
I am a moderately experienced player but not the best so another player might pipe up and say they would do things differently than me (this is the joys of the game). Take this as you will.
EDIT: Best thing to do with this game is take on board what others say as well - many on here will know I always ask questions and get advice wherever needed. With this I have now become a semi-decent player :)
thanks a lot for your advise)
look at it and notice that all nights not in domestic airport and its a good idea
I also noticed sukhoi and ATRs)
have some qution:1. its a problem to stand in waves specially. How long is the wave? 4 hours? 5 hours
7-12-17-22
2. Yes, but I still don’t understand with ratings(
Good seats cuts 20% of capacity, and good onboard service cost +20% to variable cost (25 $ per pax, when price are 140$ ).
In aircraft evaluation the best % of profit is 30% on stand seats. And we have to give 20% on seats 15% on service. Than we have rating 90-95%. And maybe full booked. But if we higher price +15% our rating goes down to 83% and pax goes to connections. So the goal is to have 90% rating and 0% profit because the connections?
thanks a lot for your advise)
look at it and notice that all nights not in domestic airport and its a good idea
I also noticed sukhoi and ATRs)
have some qution:1. its a problem to stand in waves specially. How long is the wave? 4 hours? 5 hours
7-12-17-22
2. Yes, but I still don’t understand with ratings(
Good seats cuts 20% of capacity, and good onboard service cost +20% to variable cost (25 $ per pax, when price are 140$ ).
In aircraft evaluation the best % of profit is 30% on stand seats. And we have to give 20% on seats 15% on service. Than we have rating 90-95%. And maybe full booked. But if we higher price +15% our rating goes down to 83% and pax goes to connections. So the goal is to have 90% rating and 0% profit because the connections?
Its trail an error with the waves - I may have done too many waves.
Id try and get the first wave in for 6am and then out of BUD for 7am
Then then next one about in about 11am , out for 12 midday
then 4pm out 5pm
then 9pm out 10pm and back to origin airport if it is possible. If not get rid of the Tel Aviv flight and go for somewhere closer to fit it into the schedule. A long flight can always jump a wave as well - so it goes out on wave 1 and comes back wave 4 due to length of flight if its needed to.
In terms of flight costs and getting better image- yes it does cut income potential, but rubbish ratings selling 40/100 seats will bring in less than 80/85 with better rating and less seats. Plus you can always up your prices if you are filling aircraft - simple supply and demand - so less seats + better rating = more money in this game.
Trial and error is key to this game and it takes time.
For example, I open a route, let it run for 1 week before I make a decision to keep it or not. If its not working, you change the route - either do less flights to the destination or stop it completely and try another. When you are slightly bigger though and have a proper hub and spoke system going on sometimes its OK to keep a loss making flight if 90% of the PAX are connecting onto flights that are making big $$$.
Another thing to think about is supply and demand - if you are selling out planes, up prices. For example there are a few routes where I am the only airline running the route. I have smaller planes on these routes (CRJ200/700s) and I put in more seats and up the prices silly. Some of my CRJ200s are making more than some routes my A320s are doing for this reason and my A320s are easily bringing in 50% margins.
Also a massive thing that most players miss is the AGEX system in the game (Management > Markets and exchanges and its the first graph on the left) . This is air travel demand in the server, normally this fluctuates in 6 month cycles (like real life). If you are in a low AGEX period airlines can struggle, ive seen a drop of almost 6% of bookings and we are only in the middle of the AGEX which I know I need to do better in.
Players usually do waves in 4, 6, 8 hours.
The 6 and 8 hours is the most widely used approach to waves, with 6 hours probably being the majority of players using that. It also depends on your hub location and relative location of destinations in respect to your hub, and rotations you can make with 6 or 8 hour waves.
Some hubs are better suited for 6 hour waves, some are better suited for 8 hour waves. You can use AS Route Map tool to find the best wave model and use it to plan your waves.
And I recommend you read this, if you haven't done so yet
http://community.airlinesim.aero/topic/8123-as-for-beginners-an-attempted-blog/
You can clearly see the difference by choosing the right wave times. A (every) 6 hours hub covers only Central Europe, while with an 8 hours hub you can cover almost complete Europe (you're just a tiny bit too far East for Portugal).
You can also see, that the "Weight" is roughly double for the 8 hour hub.
A quick note for the blue circle. Within this circle, you should be able to do a rotation and still have the required 2-hour gap for maintenance. So in order to maximize your utilization, schedule one rotation to within the blue circle, and one or two in the red.
One thing I would add to the wave times. When you look at the pictures Matth provided be aware that these are basic things like aircraft speed, turnaround time and distance. Take the 8-hour wave for example. Paris is just within reach to fly to and have a maintenance window of at least 2 hours and Madrid is just close enough to do one rotation within a wave. However, this does not account for slot availability. If you're flight at Budapest has to leave 10 minutes later than the start of your wave or you can't fit your flights with the correct slots at Madrid or Paris you might not be able to add them to that wave. If such airports are really important for you to add within a single wave you should accept that you can't have maintenance there (when it's about Paris) or increase the duration of your wave to for example 9 hours (can work for both Madrid and Paris).
These problems can also occur when you use aircraft with long turnaround times as the calculation used is based on a 1 hour turnaround time (It should be good enough for any prop, regio jet and all but a few narrow bodies).
Correct, though the graphs shown here are at a speed of 830 km/h (Regional jets). If you use the speed override, you can fly in critical places a bit faster and still make it somehow.
But this also doesn't take into account troubles like night landing restrictions, which are quite common in Europe. So you might have difficulties to fly to a number of airports 3 times a day.
There is a lot of good advice in this thread for you to give it a real shot b.shevelov. The chances of failing are so high, it takes several attempts to get things right at times, so dont give up straight away.