Server with realistic transport rights

Hey everybody,

I´m a big fan of this game for years now but recently I noticed that purists have big disadvantages in this game. There are some airlines on the croydon server which are normal passenger airlines but started to establish an integrator charter on all 6 continents. Just pretend that Lufthansa decides to make domestic cargo out of Memphis connecting the complete US with their Asian cargo routes via Anchorage. Sorry but this not legal as there are cabotage restrictions. There are just special right for integrators such as DHL, FedEx, UPS and TNT. So I would love to see a server where you have to decide which kind of airline you are.

  1. Passenger and cargo airline with regards to the international cabotage restrictions and no possibility to change the settings to make third country cargo

  2. Integrator: Cargo can be transported between all airports but airline is not allowed to make passenger transportation. Not even in their legal home country

I don´t want to criticise the managers of these "free-style mixed up airlines" as the game is supporting this way of play but it´s getting pretty tough for me as an integrator airline to compete with airlines which have two ways of income.

I´m looking forward to your input!!

KunBasti

I don’t understand the problem - passenger rights are restricted and cargo not - as you would like to see it?!

Dear sk,

Here is an example: FedEx is an integrator an can transport cargo without restrictions. Lufthansa is a normal airline and is only allowed to transport cargo to or out of Europe. In AS you can be a Lufthansa, FedEx mixture. Transporting passengers out of/to one country and on the other hand you can fly cargo from everywhere to everywhere with the SAME airline. Sorry not realistic. Lufthansa is not allowed to fly one kg of cargo inbound the US and FedEx is not allowed to establish a passenger spin-off.

Solution: 1. New Server 2. Founding an airline and decide which kind of airline you are (option 1: normal airline with realistic passenger and cargo restrictions; option 2: integrator without any passenger rights but with unrestricted cargo rights)

Is it really that much of a problem?? Lufthansa owns Lufthansa Cargo which can transport cargo from anywhere to anywhere. If I wanna transport cargo and passenger, do you reeeally want me to have two airlines within my holding instead of just one? Does it make any difference?

@KunBasti - I’m not sure if you’re right. Do you have any sources for your opinion?

Hi,

maybe the link below can shed some light on the issue. The fact that they made an exemption for Guam seems to indicate there are indeed restrictions…

Air cargo cabotage exemption for Guam

Jan

To be honest - it’s the first time I heard about something like this. On the one hand it really sounds that there are normaly restriction, but on the other hand it’s not really clear of how these restrictions are - it is also possible that this is a Guam (only?) issue. Or at least an issue for some regions/airports? I’m a bit surprised, because on building airlinesim we had a lot of help from people working in the air cargo section ;)

Hi,

I googled a bit more and found a document called Legal Developments in International Civil Aviation. It is a report written by the Congressional Research Service in 2006 as background information for US congress members.

The summary states that: "U.S. law also contains a general restriction on cabotage, defined as the transportation of passengers or cargo by foreign air carriers from one point in the United States to another."

Another quote: "U.S. law requires that all air carriers be “citizens of the United States” before they are granted certificates to operate between domestic locations. The Federal Aviation Act specifically defines the phrase “Citizen of the United States” as the following: (1) an individual who is a citizen of the United States; (2) a partnership each of whose partners is an individual who is a citizen of the United States; or (3) a corporation or association organized under the laws of the United States or a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States, of which the president and at least two-thirds of the board of directors and other managing officers are citizens of the United States, which is under the actual control of citizens of the United States and in which at least 75 percent of the voting interest is owned or controlled by persons that are citizens of the United States."

However, the document also states that "Currently, the United States is a party to 74 “Open Skies” Agreements worldwide". In other words, there are many bilateral agreements with many countries that (partly) allow the US or both countries to transport passengers and or cargo within the other country.

Jan

Well, I would love to continue playing AS if everything can get a bit more realistic as suggested.

I was wondering since long, that AS did not implement real world rights for pure cargo aircrafts.

Furthermore it would be nice to see differnet booking classes within Economy, Business & First in order to make the pricing more challenging, like in realworld.

I work in the air cargo sector and there are cabotage exceptions. For example: The integrators UPS / FedEx have unlimited rights and Singapore Airlines/Emirates can fly some further routes due to agreements between Germany and Singapore and Germany and the UAE.

That´s why there is a SIA PAX flight from FRA to JFK and a 3 times a week 77X flight of EK out of Frankfurt to Campinas.

If LH Cargo is flying with thier M1F out of Frankfurt to Mexico City via DFW they are not able to pick up freight in DFW. They can unload freight or pick up freight of codeshare partners which came out of the EU. But no USA - Mexico freight.

Hi, well this topicis quit interesting since playing would become more interesting and REALISTIC!

What is the plan from AS? Will they follow this idea?

There are no plans for changing in the traffic rights at the moment.

Hello I’m a player that prefers to play the simulation as if it was under real world conditions. I support having certain restrictions on airlines. I know this will make the game complicated but I have an Idea. If you country has an open sky agreement you can fly the cargo or passenger, but to fly to a place without one u would need to ask the Civil Aviation Athority of the Country in question to fly domestic passenger and cargo. This can even led to the building of secondary hubs which will fully make it legit. Debate End.