Something about the growing strategy in Gatow

English Boards General
1

As a long-term player of AS, I am managing two companys in Pearls and Gatow. And as a member of Earth Stand, I just want to explain some of my growing strategy and I think that’s why ES members is growing rapidly in Gatow. All these strategies are very effective at the beginning of the game.

  1. ROE vs Margin

The old birds in AS are dirty cheap. You can easily lease some MD-82 or 732 for $500,000 at the beginning. Although old birds’ yield is relatively low, the aircraft evaluation tool misleads a lot of players. It only measures Margin but not Return on Equity(ROE).

In the real world, ROE is a better figure to evaluate the effectiveness and profitability than Margin. For companies of the same size, which is the case in AS (we all have 10million ASD at the beginning), higher ROE means higher returns. If we did the calculation using the ROE figure, we can find that old birds are definitely more profitable. That’s because old birds have a lower leasing cost and it occupies little equity.

  1. No competition=Sky-high price

When the game world starts, you can imagine a world like this. You are in NYC, and you want to go to LA. But, the only way to go there is on foot! Then suddenly someone came and told you, you can go there in 6 hours and it took you 5000 bucks. I think most of us will take this option.

That’s why we can charge extremely high price at the beginning of the game world. The Ground Network of AS is very undeveloped. It ignores the possibility of taking trains, driving by yourself etc. So no matter how high you set the price, passengers will fill the plane. Most of the routes in the first weeks have a margin of 60%. With the help of old planes, generally players can double their assets in the first week.

  1. Slot is the most scarce resource in AS

So why we want to grow fast in the first weeks? The answer is that slot is the most scarce resource in AS. Unlike the real world, we can’t build runways to increase slots in AS. So for major airports, slot is very limited considering the demand in AS.

The fast growth at the very beginning means you can take slots as you want: build departure and arrival banks, maximize the utilization rate of the planes and so on. But slots of major airports disappear quickly, so growth is everything in the first weeks.

I should say that AS is not quiet balanced after the introduction of new airplane system. But some of the problems are deep in the game system itself. As a player, my choice is to understand the game rather than blaming anyone else. Hope all these words find you well.

2

I still don’t understand why you ES people keep on putting statements to justify your crusade! And like I said before, if people don’t buy shares in your holdings then we all can still be able to enjoy the game for a while and put in some competition.

I paid for it and im here for the long run!!

ps. stop the statements pls!!

3

What a cheap PR stunt from Earth Stand coming out one after another to explain how they grow.

Let’s make one thing clear. We do understand your strategy, it’s not that we’re stupid you know. Its about the strategy itself. By my standards its a bug/loophole of the game (even if the AS team doesn’t consider this a bug).

I explained it in numerous occasions that

  • maintenance for old planes is not realistic

  • customer demand for travel on ancient planes is not realistic

  • administrative costs for big enterprises is not realistic

So please allow us not to use your strategy and express our wishes that the game be altered so it takes these things into account. Its our right to ask for this because we play here for quite some time and have payed several hundred euros so far for this game. If it will be done that’s a different story.

Contrary to you, for us this is about something else then being number one. I don’t have a problem with you being number one and me being somewhere behind. The thing which bothers me most is the fact that you occupy all slots at bigger airports in a matter of weeks.

So regarding your strategy … thank you but no thank you.

4

+100 to that lacisoft!!!

5

could a moderator please merge this with the second thread on exactly this topic? thank you.

6

As a fairly new player that is NOT a member of Earth Stand, I agree with the OP. I started in late December on Crydon and essentially learned what not to do and what airports in my region were difficult to obtain slots. I was not aware of the new server (Gatow) that was coming and by the time I noticed, it was 3 days in and had 1150/1200 in. I decided to close up shop on Crydon and jump into Gatow in hopes of establishing a major airline at MSP. Knowing where the slots would fill up faster, I based my strategy and routes around that. I had routes on Crydon that had little to no competition that were very profitable but I thought I should get my foot in the door before it closes at the major airports. If I can get into those other airports on a mature server, I should be able to at a later time on a new one. Regarding aircraft, to say that maintenance is not realistic on older aircraft is flat out false. In some cases, my 23 year old MD-82 has maintenance that is double the cost of my 9 year old A320. I have to research and use the tools available to determine where I can and can NOT fly it. Honestly, my initial plan was to not have any aircraft older then 20 years, but quickly learned that to get established, I must use what is available. Everyone can sit around and complain about “how it’s done in real life,” but you should understand that the ones in real life that sit around, complain and refuse to adapt, suffer the same fate as you. If everyone knows what the so called loopholes are, then why not adapt your strategy to them? You might think that many real world airlines start up with newer aircraft but if you follow the money, you can trace it back to an older plane with a different paint job, some of which might have even landed in a swamp. The planes are gone but the “slots” and infrastructure obtained move with the money. The rules, aircraft and slots available are the same for everyone on a new server. If you lease 3 new aircraft with your start up money, fine. Just don’t get on and complain like a bunch of kids because someone else leased 10 older planes to start their’s. It is not an exploit, you simply just refuse to change your strategy to one that works. In fact, I place the blame for their growth on the people complaining. If more people had been bidding on the older planes at the start, it would have driven up the cost of aircraft, their operational costs and slowed their ability to expand. Based on the history of the forums, you knew what you had to do, but you didn’t and now you get on and cry about it.

7

@Airlike

Why should i change my strategy to a wrong one (from my point of view) ? I could tell you the same thing and you probably wouldn’t like it.

We play games for fun. For me its not fun at all chasing slots just two weeks into the game.

8

1.The maintenance for the older aircraft is already much higher than the brand new planes in AS.

  1. How do you define "ancient"? How about 20 years old A320s and B737 Classics? Should these aircraft be considered as ancient planes?

In the realistic world, Delta is still operating 30 years old DC-9s. KLM is still operating 20-year-old MD11s and Boeing 747s. Air France is still operating their 20-year-old A320s, A340s and B747s. So does Lufthansa and Cathay Pacific.

P.S, I am not comfortable with the word "Cheap" you used here. Please respect others’ posts even if you don’t like them.

9

No one is telling you to chase slots, there are plenty left open. Just stop crying out like a child that it’s not fair because others use a strategy that does not fit "your point of view." The same rules apply to everyone on the server. Perhaps some sort offline alternative with out any sort of competition would better suit your needs.

10

@seair

One thing is 20 years old airframe (but also depend on cycles not just years) and completely different thing a 30+ year old museum piece. And about cheap i don’t see what is offending ? Isn’t cheap the keyword these days ? Like cheap airplanes …

@Airlake

No one is crying. We just raise an issue and i’m not the only one around here raising an issue. This is the democratic way everywhere in the world. And no, i don’t need an offline version. That is maybe needed by those who want to run giant airlines. Just buy Airline6 or Airpro and you can have the biggest airline you ever wanted with lots and lots of old planes. You can even fly a Dassault Mercure or a Caravelle.

11

As a matter of fact, in AS, the rent price for a 30 years old MD and 20 years old MD is the same. The starting price of any plane older than 20 years is offered at the same discount of the original factory price.

I’d say that most popular used planes offered by AS are 20+ years old, Even the famous TU-154. Very few planes are in their 30s, for example DC-9s, Boeing 727 and the first generation of Boeing 737. In the real world, those 20+ years old planes (i.e., B737, B747, B757, B767 and AB6, A320, A340) are still in operation even in United States and European countries.

P.S, With respect to the word "cheap", it certainly has the offending meaning other than "less expensive"… Well, I guess we have different understanding of this word and let’s finish the discussion on this word…

12

This is not a democracy in any way shape or form. You, I and everyone else agreed to the terms of service as set by AS. As long as a member is not in violation of these terms, the discussion is over! I am sure that the AS team welcomes suggestions since they have a specific forum set up for that, but for people to publicly complain about the way one group of people operate their Alliance/airline within the terms of service is perfect example of childish behavior. I only suggested you try an alternative sim because you seem to have an issue with the way others operate their airline even though they are not violating the rules. I would make the same suggestion to any members of Earth Stand if they started whining about others playing by the rules too. Someone on another post said “this is a business simulation” and “you can’t run a business like that.” So my advice is this, learn how to adapt to the environment you are in, OR marry the Mayor’s sister so you can get the city contracts. Anything thing else will lead to failure.

13

@Airlake

As long as i’m a paying customer this is a “democracy” in the sense that i can express my complaints with the product. Of course i can’t force the developers to develop anything.

I play this game for 2 years now and i was always within reasonable limits with my postings and always told what is on my mind. When it was the case i defended this simulation when it was the case i exposed what was wrong with it long before the team took measures.

And i will not be told by you that the discussion is over because first of all you don’t have the right to do so and secondly you don’t have the moral stance do so. The childish behavior i think is yours and your fellows who try to demonstrate that theirs is bigger (just like in kindergarten).

This was a perfectly normal discussion between reasonable adults in the thread "Is this what we want?" about how can this game or simulation be improved. That until you showed up and started to accuse everyone of childish behavior.

14

Continually starting new threads complaining of other players IS childish. Every post from members of the Earth Stand alliance that I have read, are reasonable explanations for their growth. A large portion of the post’s in opposition have childish complaint’s, you just refuse to acknowledge it. What do you think is fair? Have all the members removed from the service?

15

@Airlake

Why do you continue to ignore the truth and lie ?! How many threads i started ? Please show me ! Actually Earth Stand started all these new threads trying to explain what they did. Not me! There was only one thread dedicated to this issue and that was not started by me.

16

17

Specifically what lies? Not once did I specifically say you started the threads. Truth? It looks as though you have an opinion and you expect the dev team to cater to your specific needs. If you have an issue with older planes, why don’t you take advantage of the server that does not have them? Of the 1200 players in Gatow, there are maybe 20 separate people complaining (less then 2%) about one alliance, some of which are part of alliances employing the very same strategy that they complain about. Your first sentence in reply to the OP of this topic is more of an attack and does nothing to help what ever it is that you want changed. Then you suggest that they (ES) think you are stupid, but I am unable to find anything other then a detailed explanation how they are able to rapidly expand. You say "by MY standards" as if you are the Dungeon Master of AS, even though you acknowledge that the AS team disagree’s with your opinion. So you want things to be like real life, or just the ones that meet your standards? Do you think the subscription fee that you pay has more value to the AS team then the other 98% of the people that are NOT complaining about others simply making use of the tools and pieces in the game?

As for the points you brought up:

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]- maintenance for old planes is not realistic - FALSE I already pointed out that some of my older aircraft have fee’s that double newer A320’s. Real world airlines would be raising concern much sooner then an 100% increase in maintenance cost over a comparable sized aircraft. Cost of fuel is the primary reason for airlines to replace older gen aircraft. Again, some routes are almost double in game, not anywhere near real world values.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]- customer demand for travel on ancient planes is not realistic - FALSE the vast majority of the flying public DO NOT know the difference between a 40 year old DC-9 and a 5 year old 717. Their perceptions do change for a short time when an event occurs with a particular aircraft, however it is the airline that suffers the greatest loss of revenue, NOT all operators of the particular aircraft. Cost of flight is the #1 reason for a customer to book a flight followed by schedule.[/font][/color]

[font=“helvetica, arial, sans-serif”][color=“#282828”]- administrative costs for big enterprises is not realistic - FALSE in a well organized business environment, admin costs as a percentage go down with growth. If you need an employee to order parts for just one aircraft, you generally don’t need a second employee to order parts after receiving a second aircraft. Same goes for the person making coffee, it’s more efficient to let the same person make 5 cups of coffee then hire a new person per cup. Obviously efficiency will drop when one persons workload is exceeded and more personal are required to complete a given task, but you need to maximize their use by growth .[/color][/font]

[font=“helvetica, arial, sans-serif”][color=“#282828”]So what are your expectations for the AS team? Do you expect them to alter the settings of the game world until you think it is fair based on your specific strategy. Maybe if you spent your time posting something constructive that they could actually implement into the game, they might do it. So far, the only thing you have posted in this thread is, "I lie" and the OP posted a "cheap PR stunt," and you don’t understand why I consider your behavior childish.[/color][/font]

18

@Airlake

What you are constantly doing is deforming the truth. Where is it says that only 2% of the people agree with my ideas ? Do you have any proof that the other 98% agrees to your ideas ? As i can see my post received more support (likes) then yours.

And regarding your FALSE statements

FALSE - in another thread it was pointed out already that its not only the direct cost associated with maintaining the fleet. It is a significant indirect cost in real life where because of old planes some do crash, some need to divert or cancel flights because of technical issues and so on. Not to mention the image of the company which gets quite a blow in these cases. I do not know any reputable airlines that operate 30+ years old planes. These additional cost are nowhere in this simulation (cost of diversions, cost of cancelled flights, cost of crashes and image cost)

FALSE - people do not look at the gate of course what airplane their boarding because they can’t tell the difference in most cases. But they do read about the companies they travel with and that’s why most airlines advertise that they run the newest fleet and so on. And believe it or not if they hear about of company with problematic airplanes they will avoid that company. That’s why they try at all cost to maintain a good image of the company. Not everyone is after their pocket only. Some people also think. I for example wouldn’t travel with a certain irish company although i know that they have quite new planes. But when i hear their boss stating that seat belts are not necessary i think of all those turbulence reports on the AvHerald and look elsewhere for plane tickets.

BTW, there is no 5 years old 717 as production for this model ended in 2006. So at least 6 or 7 years.

FALSE. Its obvious that you’ve never seen a big company from the inside. Administrative cost do rise because you need more people to manage those more people. A small company usually outsources HR because it doesn’t worth keeping an employee if you do hires just one time a year. But if you hire constantly then you need a HR departement. The HR department needs a boss who obviously will earn more. Same goes for example for the website of the company. A small website can be outsourced, when you need to constantly modify it and improve it then you need to hire a webmaster. Same goes for IT departement, housekeeping, and every other branch you can think of. In AS the profits keeps growing as you grow but the administrative costs do not grow in the same manner. It should be more.

From your posts is obvious that you have no clue of aviation and business in general and your single most important talent is deforming the reality, so this is my last reply to you.

19

While not wishing to get massively drawn into this whole argument, I just thought I’d leave this here:-

Take a look at the DC-9-50… Due to be retired this year, but even so 30+ years old

20

Are you using google translate or just not reading what I write? Do you understand the difference between “cost” and “cost as a percentage?” Admin costs should never grow at a higher percentage then gross revenues. Only short lived company’s, company’s that are subsidized and Governments operate like that. There are examples where expenses must be increased for restructuring, but this looked at as an investment to generate more revenue and profits. I know of local airline that had plenty 25+ year old DC-9s and they were not falling out of the sky and the maintenance cost was not double that of the A320’s they were buying. In fact, cost of maintenance was sharply higher then originally estimated on those A320’s, while parts for the DC-9’s were more abundant do to other airlines retiring them.