so today my leasing partner decided to terminate the leasing contract, which is his given right. No argument there. It just so happens, that he cancelled it on the day the next leasing payment is due and therefore also the day he will get his plane back.
His reasons are, because the leasing is too cheap for a 737-700BGW. This is very true and the reason I leased this plane in the first place. Shouldn't he be thinking that before he put it on the market?
Also, this has been the most unfair move I have seen so far in this game. My plane is fully booked till the last day, so I'll lose a lot of revenue and transfer traffic. Being a startup Airline it's needless to say I need all of that.
My questions are:
1. Shouldn't there be some kind of protection to cancel the leasing exactly on the day when he'll get it back?
2. Why would you put it on the market for a cheap price and cancel the leasing for that very reason?
3. This is the system message I got
XXX has terminated the leasing contract of leased aircraft N024PIK (Boeing 737-700 BGW) and given you 3 days notice for the return of the aircraft.
Sorry for the inconvenience this might cause. Sincerely, your Fleet Management Department.
Thing is, I did not get a 3 days notice. I got the messages today and the plane will be ripped out of my schedule today
If you are a start-up airline, need a trustworthy partner and rely on you revenues, don't lease from other players.
As far as I can see it should'nt be removed today. His aircraft will be returned anywhere inbetween 3 days to 10 days time depending when the lease payment is due. Therefore if he cancelled it the day payment was due it should be returned next week (7 days) unless I'm wrong?
I also believed you received 3 days notice? I have had other players cancel lease's etc while I have been away for a few days and come back to find I am a few planes down, with no idea of the route they operated! This is why I try to avoid leasing from other players.
As I wrote above I got a system message saying "XXX has terminated the leasing contract of leased aircraft N024PIK (Boeing 737-700 BGW) and given you 3 days notice..." but I only got this message today when he terminated the leasing contract.
You cann't generally say: never lease from a user. This is nonsense. Many big players are usually really fair as regards that leasing contracts. Mostly these players react send you a private message why they cancel the contract. Or never cancel a contract (like me).
I can understand your anger. However I can assure you that the majority of users in leasing-business are really fair.I only experienced one case of a termination without prior notice. I am also in the leasing-business and I never terminated the contract myself.
Best example: Some of the Fokker 100s operated by Sparrow Express are leased from user... nine7 ;) .
Why even put up the aircraft for lease and then terminate it at once?
Maybe it have been dedicated to a special player; another player than you. I dont´t agree with this "fast-canceling", but i´ve seen it a few times when members of some alliances try to push each other with cheap planes. But it´s a free market an when someone other get the plane...than the lessor have to accept it, or (the unsightly way) cancel it at one.
I had a plane cancelled on me right after lease (several hours). I messaged the player and was told the plane was meant for somebody else.
In the ongoing thread that followed it was suggested that it might be good thing to post a note. Bidding on a plane that will be cancelled is bad for both parties. One, cannot offer the plane to his desired partner for a week, and the second party (bidder) just got a plane he cannot use, and has just lost one week's lease payment on it. And if he already applied seats, he lost the seat cost as well. tw as suggested ta that thread, that players should always contact the lessor and coordinate leasing. If the price is too good to be true, it's because it's meant for somebody. Nobody would put a new 737 on UM for 10% lease price... it's meant for somebody specificto lease it at that price. If you come in between, you have just lost that money.
And the lessor may even get so upset that you have just "broke" the transaction between him and other player, that he may wait for you to put the seats on plane and schedule it, and then cancel it at the last moment (and this may be the case of OP's).
i think that the AS team should improve the leasing system
there are players who will cancel leasing contracts on purpose in order to damage other players and startups
1. after cancellation thereshould be a grace period, so that the player is able to replace that aircraft. that the cancellation is effective immediately is bad.
2. leasing contracts should have a minimum duration, lets say 612 month. cancellation only possible based on mutual agrement. period. then such abuse cannot happen anymore.
Of course they can happen. You only have to found a new subsidiary and cancle it afterwards. And about the case you are speaking of ... it's getting very annoying to have your family fights in the support every few days/weeks. But that's not part of this discussion.
I'm with you, that there are points which may not be satisfying, but you have also have a look at the view of the lessor.
If you are a start-up airline, need a trustworthy partner and rely on you revenues, don't lease from other players.
I for myself offer leasing with some of my companies on KaiTak. And I would never cancel a contract. I call this Fairplay (wouldn't offer if I don't want contracts...)
Other players think the same way. So you can't say "don't lease from other players".
In first way think about what you want: Safety all time? Or a nice price? Anyway... contact the offering player before leasing and speak about when you're not sure.
I have had great experiences leasing from other players, so far… Now that I am able to offer leasing myself I can honestly say I would not cancel any leases without the agreement of the other player. It’s just plain bad business.
... I can honestly say I would not cancel any leases without the agreement of the other player. It's just plain bad business.
Sorry, but cancelling a contract is not bad business or unfair play but simply part of a business. Both have the right to cancel - with or without the agreement of the other party.
Bad business might be to do so without any advance notice to the lessee - especially if it happens right before week's end.
I try to give an advance notice to the lessee at least 7 days ahead of lease end.