YAK-42 not accurately or fairly represented in new patch!

Hello,

I want to be upfront in acknowledging that I am a big Yak-42 fan and I have a soft-spot for the Aircraft. So having gotten that issue out of the way, I also want to congratulate the A/S crew for the successful launch of a new GUI as demonstrated and tested in the new/ongoing Quimby game World. I like to believe players are enjoying themselves tremendously with the unrestricted aircraft choices and new found freedom. On another issue however I will have to berate the A/S implementation crew ( :P) for the way Yak-42 had been handled and implemented severally in the game and will like to appeal to the crew to reconsider and make necessary adjustments in future games so as to further improve on its twin objectives of realism and fairness.

First, in the Seat configuration module/section, Yak-42 is visually and structurally represented as an Aircraft with a 2+2 seating arrangement - nothing could be further from the truth! With a fuselage diameter of 3.8m, Yak-42 has a bonafide 3+3 cabin and indeed has a cabin width that is equal or even wider than most mainline medium-sized jets. Cabin width in Yak-42D is the same as Tu-204, Tu-154 and is very slightly wider than Boeing 737, 727 and 757! The only mid-sized jet that has a slightly wider cabin is the A320 family. I will appreciate it if the A/S team would look at this oversight and correct it in the nearest future.

Secondly, I will like to appeal to the A/S team to take a closer look at the “Likeability Rating” that has been awarded to the Yak-42 - I believe that the Yak has been unfairly targeted and downgraded. My premise for this assumption is simple and straightforward - the Yak-42 is truly an Aircraft that begun its production run in the early 80s (1980 to be precise). In truth the YAK-42 is a contemporary of the venerable MD-80 series which enjoyed much greater success. It is worth noting however that while the YAK-42 might not have enjoyed as much of a success as the MD-80, it has in many regards shown itself to be just as resilient and very much up to the demands of modern commercial aviation. Singularly, YAK-42 remains the only Soviet era jet aircraft still in wide commercial use and which has no sanctions, ban or penalty against it worldwide. Yak-42 is fully Stage 3/Chapter 3 compliant and has no need for a hushkit (MD-80 is barely so!). The Yak was also the first Soviet Aircraft to be certified for flight using a two-man crew. Yak-42D’s interior appointment is often disappointing (truthfully) but that is really up to the airline or end-user and cannot be attributed to the Aircraft.

Comparing the “Likeability Rating” of other contemporary planes or even older ones reveals just how unfairly the Yak has been rated! For instance, the Boeing 737-200 (which is much older) gets (-3) or 3 red bars however once it is hushkitted, it gets promoted to (-2) or 2 red bars. The Yak-42D is much quieter with modern turbofans and only gets (-3) or 3 red bars! The Fokker F28 for instance, is much older and much more noisy but it still manages to attain 1 green bar. The venerable DC-9 is much older (the Yak-42 is a contemporary of the newer Md-80) and yet still manages 2 red bars! The Tu-154M is awarded 2 red bars (even though it can no longer fly in European air space!). The Tu-134 has 3 red bars (…and understandably so with the noise and age). Yak-42 has only ever had 9 hull losses - why has it been so vilified and demonized? It would be nice and a breath of fresh air if A/S would upgrade the YAK and accord it a minimum of 2 red bars.

PS: I cannot help but to note that the other trijet - the Boeing 727 is equally afflicted with the (-3) or 3 red bar syndrome! Do you guys have anything against trijets?? :angry:  :P  

I have something about trijets and perssonaly do not like flying them as they are very noisy but I am more against Mcdonnell-Douglas. Are there even hushkits in AirlineSim?

Are there even hushkits in AirlineSim?

I’m pretty sure that the “(HK)” label on some aircraft models denotes a hush kit. Aftermarket conversions don’t exist in the game though.

Any abbreviated model with "(HK)" in the list of Aircraft manufacturer's products denotes Hushkit. Also the phrase "(RE)" denotes Re-engined (largely refers to the Boeing 727-200 SUPER 27 which was re-engined with a pair of PW JT8D-219) The re-engine of the DC-8 was carried out using an entirely new model name hence the designation- DC-8-70 series.

Thank you I learned something new about what the HK meens. Even if I have never seen a aircraft manufactured whit HK from the begging, I have seen the HK as a extra add on when you order the aircraft.

How in the world could anyone hate this???? Wow...... what a beauty!  :wub:  :wub:  :P  :D 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MNZAiExMmc

It has nothing to do with hating ... but there are some simple fact that even in the russian minded states the aircraft is "no success" at all. ;)

"No success at all"?? Interesting perspective from someone who should know better. Define success??. Is the Boeing 717 a success?? What about the Fairchild Dornier 328Jet?? The Yak had 180 examples built and is the only soviet era jet that is still widely used by CIS airlines and is permitted in European air-space. Boeing only managed to produce 156 copies of B717 before ceasing prouction. Fairchild Dornier only made 110 328 jets however I do not think anyone will regard these airplanes as failures. I will like to know what exactly qualifies the Yak-42 as a failure. Lockheed Tristar only sold 250 airframes and yet is still being raved as one of the greatest airliners of its time. How many Lockheed tristars are in commercial service today?? If British Aerospace built only 64 BAE ATPs and in spite of that and with it being a turboprop it still got a single green bar! How many BAE ATP turboprops are in active commercial passenger service today?? Anyhow, ....I was merely advocating and quite frankly, I did not think my appeal will get much response or sympathy from A/S crew. :(  Nevertheless, please note that the complaint about YAK-42's Seat configuration as represented in A/S is a very valid one and should be visited and improved upon - you could at least acknowledge and do that. :)  Thank you.

"No success at all"?? Interesting perspective from someone who should know better. Define success??. Is the Boeing 717 a success?? What about the Fairchild Dornier 328Jet?? The Yak had 180 examples built and is the only soviet era jet that is still widely used by CIS airlines and is permitted in European air-space. Boeing only managed to produce 156 copies of B717 before ceasing prouction. Fairchild Dornier only made 110 328 jets however I do not think anyone will regard these airplanes as failures. I will like to know what exactly qualifies the Yak-42 as a failure. Lockheed Tristar only sold 250 airframes and yet is still being raved as one of the greatest airliners of its time. How many Lockheed tristars are in commercial service today?? If British Aerospace built only 64 BAE ATPs and in spite of that and with it being a turboprop it still got a single green bar! How many BAE ATP turboprops are in active passenger service today?? Anyhow, ....I was merely advocating and quite frankly, I did not think my appeal will get much response or sympathy from A/S crew. :(  Nevertheless, please note that the complaint about YAK-42's Seat configuration as represented in A/S is a very valid one and should be visited and improved upon - you could at least acknowledge and do that. :)  Thank you.

What seats are you using to get 2+2 config? If you are using Leisure or Leisure Plus, then AS *should* make it 3+3...

Nobody hates it. Look at the tristar the first turbofan dirven aircraft. Really you have to realise that russians never have been any great aircraft builders (not to be racist). I my self am very intrested in the Soviet Union and I know many things they were good at but building aircraft has never been their thing. This rating is given because the aircraft was not pupular outside of communist countries. Please give me an example of a non communist Europen country tat has ever used them?

I do not hate it and it is not a failure but you can not compare it to european standards. Well if I would have a choice between a very old Airbus and a Yak-42 I would choose the Airbus. Maybe you do not understand Europeans but I am quite sure that most europeans would choose Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier or Embraer before any russian aircraft. Do you think a aircraft the most of the world does not want should have a good rating? 

Your airline could fly whit it if you love them that much, but the rating should not increase. 

Even compare that 8 Yak-42s have crashed but only 9 Tristars have crashed even if more were produced and the tristar is much older. 

I am not writing this to be racist or mean I just want to say that the majority does not like them.

What seats are you using to get 2+2 config? If you are using Leisure or Leisure Plus, then AS *should* make it 3+3...

It doesn't matter what seat you use, ....even if you use the slimline HD the configuration tool only allows a 2+2 arrangement (even though, in truth, the total number of seats seem to be normal). It also shows you a 2+2 cabin image.

Nobody hates it. Look at the tristar the first turbofan dirven aircraft. Really you have to realise that russians never have been any great aircraft builders (not to be racist). I my self am very intrested in the Soviet Union and I know many things they were good at but building aircraft has never been their thing. This rating is given because the aircraft was not pupular outside of communist countries. Please give me an example of a non communist Europen country tat has ever used them?

I do not hate it and it is not a failure but you can not compare it to european standards. Well if I would have a choice between a very old Airbus and a Yak-42 I would choose the Airbus. Maybe you do not understand Europeans but I am quite sure that most europeans would choose Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier or Embraer before any russian aircraft. Do you think a aircraft the most of the world does not want should have a good rating? 

Your airline could fly whit it if you love them that much, but the rating should not increase. 

Even compare that 8 Yak-42s have crashed but only 9 Tristars have crashed even if more were produced and the tristar is much older. 

I am not writing this to be racist or mean I just want to say that the majority does not like them.

"Majority does not like them"??? Majority of whom?? Your fellow countrymen or are you speaking for the whole world?? Have you even ever been outside of your country of birth or continent?? People talk like the world starts and ends at their doorstep. No one is advocating for the Yak to get a green bar, I was merely saying with all things considered, it should have gotten at least a negative 2 (2 red bars instead of 3 red bars). Now I am not even interested in pursuing that since the ignorance and prejudice displayed here has left me completely shocked and almost speechless!!! It is beyond belief that people will just spew out utter rubbish without the benefit of knowledge and due consideration! If you want to compare Russian planes to Embraer then you use a contemporary aircraft such as the SSJ-100 - you do not and cannot use a YAK-42 which was designed in the mid to late 70s! By the way, the YAK-42 was the first narrow-body aircraft to use a modern high bypass turbofan! (Yes, .....way before Airbus or Boeing). If you want to compare a western jet to a Yak-42 then you could use MD-80 ( both B737 classics and A320 are newer and therefore benefit from newer technological advances). Soviet or Russian planes are obviously not the world's favorite but that does have a lot to do with Geo-politics, commerce and many other things rather than just engineering! If you say that building Aircraft has never been something the Soviets were good in then I ask you - who was it that the Americans competed against?? Western Europe (except the British) was not even a force to reckon with in aviation until the 80s! The first and only Airbus design before 1980 was the A300! The Ilyushin Il-18D was so advanced and competent that it caught the equivalent American L-188 Electra and the British Bristol Britannia with their pants down! Still yet, ...that was not the Soviet's best at that time - you need to read up on the venerable Tu-114 and how it was far ahead of western capabilities (holding records that remain unbroken even today)! Tupolev Tu-204 was the first narrow-body to feature and use winglets. (Yes, ......way before Airbus and Boeing). If I had to carry on, I could probably write a book in educating you however it is obviously a pointless venture that serves no purpose. I rest my case about the Yak-42's "Likeability Rating". I have and will use the YAK-42 regardless. I have also been very successful with it and will continue to do so. As a matter of fact, I am going to get rid of a fleet of one Aircraft type in my Airline on Quimby and replace them with YAK-42Ds (Yes! :P )

Plese stop. I know very much about the soviet union and I have reserched it very much and am very intrested in it. I know all the planes you are talking about. Did I ever state that soviet planes are bad or rubbish? I would like to say that soviet planes have nothing bad whit the construction they are very solid and quite relaible atleast a old soviet engine will never fail. I would say that the soviet´s have not been thinking about confort. Why would you think of confort if the passagers will anyway go on a one way ticket to Siberia during the soviet union? I myself am very fascinated about soviet engineering (for example the Caspian Sea Monster and ground to air machines in general), I am also fashinated of the soviet politics and propaganda. The russian planes are not liked as they are russian and you know how the world thinks of that, and because they have not been thinking about confort in the design proces.

The fact that they are russian is not bad just the world sees it in a bad way after what happend in Ukraina and everything else. Even look what happened in the Eurovision last year when russia had quite a good song.

In fact I am traveling very much and I leave Europe about 2 times a year and travel in Europe about ones every month.

As I said I am not a racist and have nothing bad about russians as long as they keep their soldiers in russia.

Boeing only managed to produce 156 copies of B717 before ceasing prouction.

Please keep in mind that contracts with suppliers for parts to construct the 717 exactly matched the number of manufactured aircraft. Additional sales would have resulted in new negotiations with suppliers and I strongly believe that it was intentional that Boeing stopped the production. Interest for the Boeing 717-200 (and the earmarked variants Boeing 717-100 as well as Boeing 717-300) was there. Even without being part of a family, the Boeing 717 outsold both the Boeing 737-600 and Airbus A318. 

Define success??. Is the Boeing 717 a success?? 

It´s difficult to define success. The number of sold aircraft is probably not a success. The operational history of the 717 among operators is a positive one.

It´s even more difficult to define and compare success between Western and Russian aircraft. Russian concepts and the designing of these aircraft were often directed by other factors compared to Western designs. There is a tendency that competition was not the driving force to design Russian aircraft but many other (important) factors. 

Western aircraft needed to compete in other areas.

As much as I like Russian aircraft like the TU-154 etc., it is obvious that such a beautiful and fine design was not able to compete with Western designs when looking at pure numbers and the TU-154 - even with no geo-political obstacles - the interest would have been rather weak. Some Western airlines more or less looked at Russian designs, for example Finnair in the 1960s and 1970s. In all cases, the Russian design suffered from lack of efficiency.

The majority of Western airlines were able to choose more or less from a range of aircraft while the rather few Russian airlines (mostly if not all part of a ministry) were "ordered" to fullfill tasks and the aircraft was supplied. An airline like Aeroflot had other tasks to do and had (until the end of the 1980s) different demands to an aircraft. Aeroflot were never in the position like Western airlines and wasn´t in the urge to select an aircraft from several competitors.

Even Western companies like British Airways finally selected their fleet according to their needs - with great anger of British manufacturers.

Evaluation of an aircraft by a specific airline is a very interesting topic IMO. The evaluation of airlines to select a Russian aircraft in the 1970s or 1980s was not comparable to the evaluation at an airline like Austrian Airlines, Finnair or SAS or Aer Lingus. The possible scenario was more of an Austrian Airlines with the idea to operate the MD-80 at much lower costs, much lower noise and with a dramatic increase on payload and profit-potential compared to the DC-9-50 while Aeroflot was "ordered" to develop routes in region X and the need was there for 20 additional aircraft.

Even with regard to cabin-design, Western aircraft had to be more competitive IMO and adapted some features much faster compared to Russian designs. A 1985-delivered Boeing 737-300 or MD-80 provided a much more advanced approach towards cabin-design compared to Russian airliners.

Nevertheless, I like Russian aircraft.

One of my subsidiaries only exists for the sake of operating Russian aircraft like the:

			Yakovlev YAK-42D,
	<p>Tupolev TU-134A/TU-154M and&nbsp;Ilyushin IL-62M ;)</p>

Anyway, .......is someone from A/S going to comment on the seat configuration module's misrepresentation of the Yak-42D? As already spelled out above, the configuration tool seems to confuse the fuselage of a Tu-134 for the Yak-42. The Yak-42 has a fuselage diameter that is a full 3.8m - meaning it should be a full 3+3 wide cabin (...being infact as wide as the Tu-154 and slightly wider than the B737).

I think someone is a little obsessed with the YAK-42...... 

Anyway, .......is someone from A/S going to comment on the seat configuration module's misrepresentation of the Yak-42D? As already spelled out above, the configuration tool seems to confuse the fuselage of a Tu-134 for the Yak-42. The Yak-42 has a fuselage diameter that is a full 3.8m - meaning it should be a full 3+3 wide cabin (...being infact as wide as the Tu-154 and slightly wider than the B737).

@Martin, @AK, etc

This needs to be commented on! If the Inner Diameter is truly 3.8M, then it should seat 3+3 (or even 3+4 slimline HD)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-42

Well - the most easiest way is to send us an mail to our support and add some sources for the data. We check this and change the data with the next data patch if possible.

Well - the most easiest way is to send us an mail to our support and add some sources for the data. We check this and change the data with the next data patch if possible.

Ok, great. Thread closed!

@MIDAS02 - Please submit a help ticket with verifiable linked data that shows the cabin of a YAK-42. You know Airliner.net has great photos of YAK-42 showing 3x3

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Gazpromavia/Yakovlev-Yak-42D/2452626/&sid=6ac8ce5f010791beec7d56358f862ea6

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-(Lviv-Airlines)/Yakovlev-Yak-42D/2270791/&sid=6ac8ce5f010791beec7d56358f862ea6

The 2nd one is great because it shows military sized men sitting 3x3!!!

P.S. - Airliners.net verifies their photos.