6 Notable Errors, Oversight and Misrepresentations in A/S

Hello,

I, like many players, have enjoyed playing A/S for a number of years. Over the years, we have seen the game blossom and mature. Considerable efforts have been put in place to ensure a platform that is not only challenging but also very realistic. In fact, to my mind, the very appeal of A/S comes from its realism and its capacity for realistic simulation. As such, the value of true representation and realism cannot be overstated and is a very critical and important component of the A/S success story. This is why whenever an oversight or error comes to my attention, I, as a player, will always take note of it and ensure that the development team gets an earful - thankfully, they have almost always been attentive and responsive to such inputs. Below, I have put together some of the errors or misrepresentations that I have noticed in the current version of A/S - a few of them are not new and complaints have been lodged about them in the past. I hope the A/S team will take note and take the necessary steps making needed improvements to the platform.

1. Morocco's Time Zone:

Morocco’s time zone in A/S is wrong. Morocco’s real life time zone is GMT (UTC) +1, and is clearly not GMT(UTC) as is being represented on A/S.

2. Fokker F28 & F70 cabin length:

In A/S, Fokker F28 is represented as being bigger than F70 in terms of cabin volume - nothing could be further from the truth. Fokker F28-4000 fellowship has a total length of 29.61m (97ft 2in) whereas the Fokker F70 has a length of 30.91m (101ft 5 in). The consequence of this difference in fuselage length is that the F70 has a standard single class passenger accommodation of 79 seats at 81cm (32in), but at its maximum capacity, it can accommodate 85 passengers at 76cm (30in) pitch. On the other hand, the F28 could only accommodate a maximum of 85 passengers at 74cm (29in) pitch.

3. Yak-42D's cabin representation:

It is sad that I have to come back to reiterate a shortcoming which had been noted and brought to the teams notice almost 18 months ago! Yak-42D has been misrepresented in its profile for cabin configuration in A/S. The 'Yak' may not be anyone's favorite but it still deserves an accurate and fair representation in A/S - for this is the essence of having a simulation! Yak-42D has a fuselage that is 3.8m wide (actually wider than B737!) and yet in A/S's cabin configuration tool it has been represented as a cigar cabin (much like CRJs and Tu-134's cabin). This is an error that is overdue for correction. What is worth doing at all is worth doing well!

4. Sukhoi Superjet 100 cabin length and capacity representation:

Sukhoi Superjet 100’s has been represented in A/S to have a maximum passenger load of 98 - which is flat wrong! The SSJ has a maximum passenger passenger capacity of 108 PAX at 30 inch seat pitch. It does however handle 98 pax at 32 inch pitch. I brought this up in the past and was advised that it was best to provide reliable data on cabin dimensions, which I did but nothing has happened since then. The issue is that neither the certified capacity for the aircraft (108 pax) nor the cabin dimensions have been correctly represented in A/S thus leading to a deficit in realism and proficiency. So once again, let me provide the requested data for the A/S team:

For Sukhoi SSJ 100, dimensions is as follows;

Interior Cabin length is 20.42m (803.28 inches)

Interior Cabin Height is 2.12m (83.46 inches)

Interior Cabin Width is 3.24m (127.40 inches)

Here is the requested link (source):

http://www.superjeti…ct_Brochure.pdf

5. Lockheed Tristar L1011 made unavailable. Why??:

So far, no one has been able to give an acceptable explanation as to why the Lockheed Tristar L1011 has been excluded from featuring in the world’s greatest Airline simulation game. There has been no comprehensible reason given for its demise (it use to be available a few years back) especially since even older air-frames are featured!   :mad:   :angry:. In servers that allow older used planes, …if DC-8, IL-62, Il-86 and DC-10, F-28 fellowship and even AN-24 or An-12 could make the list, I see no reason why the Tristar should have been excluded from the used aircraft market.

6. Ilyushin IL-86 & IL-96 totally misrepresented in many ways:

The performance, dimensions and capabilities of both Ilyushins ( IL-86 & IL-96) as represented on A/S, is nothing short of a travesty!! Look, ....it does not take a genius to figure out that his venerable aircraft models have been short-changed by the A/S team (let us face it!). What I cannot figure out is why such measures were even necessary in the first place, especially since it is no secret that these planes were no great performers in comparison to their competition in the first place. Nevertheless, I believe that it is only fair to represent them fairly and truthfully - this is what great simulation demands and is about! Let me spell out the numerous misrepresentations below:

With IL-86, the following areas have been grossly misrepresented:

A. Cabin Dimensions: The IL-86 is designed to accommodate 350 single class passengers in comfort with the following interior cabin dimensions - (Length: 44m; Width: 5.7m; Height: 2.61m). If the A/S team were to use these dimensions (which can be verified easily), you will soon realize that the IL-86 as shown in A/S was grossly truncated and should not need any slimline seats to accommodate 350 passengers in economy.    

B. Flight Performance: The IL-86, as represented in A/S, has been completely robbed of its already poor performance. Here is an aircraft that had very poor endurance performance to start with but apparently team A/S still felt the need to rob it of even that poor performance and leave it with nothing! Here is the true performance of IL-86 (it can be verified easily and a simple performance chart can be created).

          Maximum payload .................. 42 tons 

          Maximum Range at 42 tons ...................................3,300km

          Maximum Range at 40 tons ...................................3,600km (3,800km for late models)

          Maximum Range with max fuel...............................4,600km

C. Cargo Capabilities: The IL-86, as represented in A/S, once again has been shafted, robbed and misrepresented - The cargo capabilities have been altogether taken away for no apparent reason! Even a tiny Saab 340 is still allowed a little cargo capability on A/S but apparently this privilege is not for the Russian wide-body plane. There is no greater evidence of a prejudicial representation than this - it is unforgivable! It is unspeakable that an aircraft that is capable of lifting up to 15 tons of cargo (separate from passengers) has been reduced to nothing! IL-86 has 5 underfloor holds with bays 2 and 4 being dedicated to handling 16 AK-1.5 cargo containers (Soviet equivalent of the LD3 containers) and then bays 1, 3 and 5 being dedicated to passenger luggage and bulk cargo. 

For the more modern Ilyushin IL-96, the story is very much the same as with its predecessor. It has been misrepresented and cheated of performance in the same areas in A/S. The following facts are true of the IL-96-300:

A. Cabin Dimensions: The IL-96-300 is designed to accommodate 300 single class passengers in comfort with the following interior cabin dimensions - (Length: 41m; Width: 5.7m; Height: 2.61m). If the A/S team were to use these dimensions (which can be verified easily), you will soon realize the degree to which the length has been truncated - so much so that the plane is unable to handle a decent number of passengers in two classes with anything more than a standard economy seat!

B. Flight Performance: The IL-96, as represented in A/S, has been made even more unattractive by the development team by robbing it of its best performance improvements! It may not be a Boeing 777 however it is only right to represent things fairly and accurately. Here is the true performance of IL-96 (it can be verified easily and a simple performance chart can be created).

          Maximum payload .................. 37.5 tons

          Maximum Range at 37.5 tons ................................... 9,000km (4850 nm)

          Maximum Range at 30 tons ......................................10,000km (5400 nm)

          Maximum Range at 15 tons ......................................12,000km (6500 nm)

          Maximum Range with max fuel..................................14,000km

C. Cargo Capabilities: The IL-96 like its predecessor has had its cargo capabilities taken away for no apparent reason! Even a tiny ATR or Saab 340 is still allowed a little cargo capability on A/S but apparently this 'privilege' is not for any Russian wide-body planes. There is no greater evidence of a prejudicial representation than this - it is unforgivable! The IL-96, like any wide-body jet, is capable of handling impressive loads of cargo in its underfloor cargo holds. It is indeed unspeakable that an aircraft such as this is made incapable of lifting any cargo. The IL-96-300 has a Forward lower cargo hold that accommodates six LD3 containers or pallets and another Rear cargo hold accommodates 10 LD3 containers for a total of 16 LD3 containers. Total cargo hold capacity is 25 tons. (obviously when carrying passengers, it cannot handle its full cargo limits!)

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It is my sincere hope that the A/S development team will take this as constructive criticism and go to work - eliminating any such inaccuracies and misrepresentations as shown above. I, as an individual and a person, am very proud to be part of this gaming community and will like to see it aspire to even greater heights - I will like to see the team deliver on its promise of accurate and unrivaled aviation simulation without engaging in the slightest bit of prejudice or sentiments. Thank you for your good works.

No Tristars are currently in scheduled commercial service. Stapleton has a couple but newer worlds don’t. It is a shame though as I like it more than DC-10s.

Should the lack of scheduled service be the reason for not including an aircraft, one could wonder for example why the MD-11 in its passenger version is present in Otto when its last scheduled passenger flight occured in 2014 (with KLM if I remember correctly).

Regardless, I would also support having the TriStar available in newer worlds as well. It is already there in some worlds, so I guess it wouldn't cost anything – and would make some players happy  ^_^

Talking about old Lockheeds we should have beauties like the L1049 and L188 they are in a class by themselves when comparing their looks to the DCs ?.

Being a lessor of a large number of SSJs used by alliance members to attack competitors' positions, all I can say is that both me and my lessees would love a possible capacity increase with SSJ! SSJ is a "battleground" aircraft.

If A/S team is looking for ways to make the Ilyushins less attractive than 'Western' types, there are realistic ways to do so - for one, the IL-86 is operated by a crew of 5. The more modern IL-96 however is less cumbersome and needs a crew of 3 to operate. Implementing such will give it a distinctive and realistic disadvantage in terms of operational costs (to say little about the uneconomical fuel burn). Realism should be a non-negotiable attribute in A/S - let us do away with these prejudiced 'balancing acts' and simply allow plane types to be themselves without further artificial encumbrances!!

The issue for IL86/96 is not only on the crew management, it's the aircraft itself. These two planes are just not so stable and keep getting issues during operations. Aircraft is just unreliable in some point of view. AS isn't simulating this effect because as long as you do the maintenance, everything goes well. Fixing the issue won't be an easy task. Also, addition crew might cause extra costs, but it's still manageable, so people can still use aircraft.

There are certain Russian models which are okay, and you won't believe how people running those cargo planes. It really depends on what are they designed for.

Point 1. You will find that Morocco has the correct time zone in AS. During the summer Morocco is UTC+1 and winter is UTC. Sometimes when it changes is different to the rest of the world due to Ramadan.

Everywhere else has the same logic, UK states it is UTC where as at the moment is UTC+1 but day light saving is not accounted for in AS.

So technically yes it is in wrong time zone now, as is every other airport, but give it a week and all will be correct (clocks going back)

The issue for IL86/96 is not only on the crew management, it's the aircraft itself. These two planes are just not so stable and keep getting issues during operations. Aircraft is just unreliable in some point of view. AS isn't simulating this effect because as long as you do the maintenance, everything goes well. Fixing the issue won't be an easy task. Also, addition crew might cause extra costs, but it's still manageable, so people can still use aircraft.

There are certain Russian models which are okay, and you won't believe how people running those cargo planes. It really depends on what are they designed for.

There is an easy way to address the reliability of Russian made aircraft, maintenance ration.

Fly an IL86 for 6 hours a day, and the maintenance ratio is at 100%. As simple as that.

:) Then the SSJ could not fly more than 3 hours per day. ;D

Why? They are flying much much more then 3 hours per day with Interjet and City jet.

Not the cityjet ones...spend most of everyday on the ground

You can't use real life operating time used for AS. Not all the airline used the aircraft up to the limitation of the aircraft maintenance. They need to fit the schedule like you do.

Not the cityjet ones...spend most of everyday on the ground

“100% dispatch reliability on pretty taxing schedule” doesn’t sound to me like spending most of the time on the ground http://m.atwonline.com/atw-location/cityjet-expects-firm-ssj-options

"100% dispatch reliability on pretty taxing schedule" doesn't sound to me like spending most of the time on the ground http://m.atwonline.com/atw-location/cityjet-expects-firm-ssj-options

Dispatch reliability on what? Take a look at their last week flying. I'm 99% sure none of those flights are scheduled, maybe a couple of charters.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-fwa

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-fwb

EI-FWA spent 7:51 airbourne

EI-FWB spent 11:40 airbourne

Average airborne per aircraft per day 01:23!!!

I understand the article that the 100% dispatch reliability were for the month of wet-lease with Finnair. Yes, it's only one month, but I would assume that there it was flying more than just an hour a day.

While I don't expect the aircraft to have the same reliability as an Airbus or Boeing, I'm pretty sure that it is far better than any old type like the IL-86 or the like.

@Midas02: First of all thanks for pointing out some discrepancies with real world data. I will gladly look into your points but would appreciate if you could provide us with some further information for verification. We will then check on how we can implement any required changes.

1. AS does not cater for daylight savings time

2. Do you have any link/document to the sources of your cabin length data? My google research did not find any information regarding these

6. Do you have any link/document to the sources of your data? Especially the cabin dimensions and the cargo capacity (weight and volumes)

    According to Wikipedia the IL-86 has a crew of 3 and not 5 as you mentioned. Same for the IL-96.

And while each of us has their favorite aircraft, it is definitely not our intention to misrepresent any aircraft here. To find the required level of details for the various types is though not always simple and therefore one or the other aircraft is not 100% accurate. Furthermore, the game relies on certain simplifications and cannot represent all features/performances of real aircraft, although we try to get them match the real values as closely as possible.

Here are the cabin dimensions for SSJ passenger aircraft

http://www.superjetinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/SSJ100_Datasheet.pdf

The difference in cabin length between CR9 and SSJ is a mere 0.7 mts as per official cabin length information form manufacturers, but the difference in AS is 2-and-something rows of recliner longhaul seats. The difference is noticeable and this leads me to believe that indeed AS has a wrong cabin length information for SSJ95.

And now someone else is making baseless inferences to the dispatch reliability of Sukhoi Superjet. It is always the same - people who only seek to discredit other people'e effort basing everything on their own prejudice. Cityjet is not using the SSJ heavily yet simply because when you get brand new deliveries of a new plane type, your crew and operations have to undergo a period of training and acclimatization, working out procedures, kinks and other support details (this is precisely the same reason why Swiss took delivery of the CS100 and had it running in unscheduled mode for almost a year before announcing the commencement of scheduled flights!). Why are we always seeking to discredit others? Have you questioned the CS100?? The SSJ was only delivered in June whereas Swiss was allowed to test and make use of a pre-production CS100 since 2015 and only just finally announced a full production delivery in July, 2016. Looking at the link below - am I to now question and discredit Bombardier?? Every aircraft goes through a period of teething problems and acclimatization - crew, support and maintenance!. Operating a plane is not like operating a car!!

http://atwonline.com/manufacturers/glitches-affect-initial-swiss-cseries-flights

The issue for IL86/96 is not only on the crew management, it's the aircraft itself. These two planes are just not so stable and keep getting issues during operations. Aircraft is just unreliable in some point of view. AS isn't simulating this effect because as long as you do the maintenance, everything goes well. Fixing the issue won't be an easy task. Also, addition crew might cause extra costs, but it's still manageable, so people can still use aircraft.

There are certain Russian models which are okay, and you won't believe how people running those cargo planes. It really depends on what are they designed for.

It always surprises me how people are ever so willing to talk trash about things of which they have little knowledge. What the heck do you mean by "These two planes are just not so stable and keep getting issues during operations."?? Do you have any operational experience with this types or are you just making allusions to things which you know nothing about? Have you ever seen one of these planes much less touch or ride in one?? What exactly is the source of your information?? I am trying very hard not to turn this into a Russian plane argument - cos people are just so prejudiced that they do not even consider it important to have facts - they simply spew jargon! Can you give me an acceptable source for your information about reliability.

First, these two planes have excellent safety records (as good as any plane ever made - check your facts!). Secondly, the reliability of these planes was never an issue, much rather the issue was the cost of keeping maintenance up (as required by Aviation ministry and manufacturer). Their reliability and performance is a function of the design parameters that was laid down when they were manufactured. USSR was operating under a very different circumstance and set of rules then - for one, labor was cheap, abundant and never an issue however safety was paramount. This meant that Soviet planes were designed without consideration for operational cost or the cost of maintenance this led to having an overkill in the areas of scheduled maintenance and routine checks. Whereas a Boeing jet was required to have a D-check every 9000 hrs and an engine overhaul every 12,000 hrs (for example), the Soviet design bureaus demanded heavy check every 4500 hours and an engine overhaul every 3000 hours! This was essentially the problem which had to be resolved after the end of the soviet era. Modern Russian planes are obviously built to different standards and with more global design parameters in place.

A/S has already represented those higher costs of maintenance in its model. If you take a look at the planes in A/S, you will quickly notice the much higher cost of maintenance. As in real life, once maintenance is done there is no reason for the notion of unreliability and “…issues during operation”. Otherwise, you might want to point us to an incident in which either (at least one) of these planes was scheduled to take-off but had to be towed off the tarmac because “it had issues during operation” . Such statements are exactly the kind of baseless, ignorant statements which I detest getting mixed up with. 

Speaking about the performance of IL-96, it has gradually improved over the years and the most recent builds actually do have very decent performance. In the initial days (late 90s), IL-96 was restricted to 30 tons because full engine thrust was restricted and used under strict routines - the then new PS-90 engine was temperamental and touchy (undergoing teething problems). This resulted in limited range and payload. 30 tons/ 7500 km.

Later, by 2000, much of the PS-90s initial teething problems had been resolved, this allowed the engine thrust to be used more freely thus allowing a more robust use of the airframe's potentials which resulted in the 37.5 tons / 9000km range (given above). Research, developments and improvements continued just as it did with other manufacturers.

By 2009, Aviavigatel (the engine manufacturer) had incorporated some improvements for the PS-90 turbofan from lessons learnt in their research and development work on the PS-12 engine (the PS-12 engine was later abandoned and much of its research was used to develop the PD-14 engine) and also from joint cooporation with P&W (Yes indeed! Americans exchanged some engine technology for some Titanium /metallurgical engineering know how). Anyhow, the last variant of the PS-90 (officially called PS-90A3) was much more matured and could deliver 38,000 ibs ft of thrust on demand. (Same as PS-90A2). Consequently, the IL-96-300 was uprated to 40 tons and 9800km. if you look at the Ilyushin website for an official position on the IL-96-300, what you will see is the current performance figures which is even better than what I gave in my earlier submission above. Below is an image of the current performance chart for IL-96-300 which I have lifted from Ilyushin’s own official page.

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