About Fair Play

1. If everybody have sensed this problem many servers earlier, why the cheap seats are still available for the business class in the first place?  It's like some FPS game. There're server with friendly-fire, you can kill you teammate all you want and free from punishment, meanwhile there're also servers with TK-punish turned on, TKer will be killed instantly. But TK-punish would never kill players who once killed a teammate. So it's simlple,  AS team should make the rules, specifying how many cheap business seats per flight is cheating, and specified types of small planes in mega airport is cheating, also how frequent are the flights will be consider as cheating and what airport is mega airport, so far we see none. Before that we cannot judge others only because we THINK it's not right.

2. There's never a standard configuration in the game or the reality, I understand some players would like to play it real, someone would like to play it big. I can see some guys really love this game and want it to be realistic, then you guys should join the AS team to fix problems which you dislike instead of yelling for change. If someone still thinks it is unfair then i suggest that every aircraft would be built with fixed seats in it, and let's see who is smarter =)

3. For those who keep insulting others, I can see your family's behavior from you, too.

It is sad seeing the other discussion has turned to people shouting at each other, so I had no chance to ask this question there. But @team: Could we get a statement what you guys are planning to solve this situation on Aspern?

@thalyz

Currently I'm investigating the first problem ... usage of Let and Cessnas on large airports and herewith "reserving" slots. As we are at an early stage of the game, the ATO as owner of the aircraft is determining the leasing contracts. The rest will be discussed in single case decission.

Thanks for that statement sk.

I think this is a good start. What will be next? The full slim line C-class equiped planes? Cause  I think almost everybody has a competitor in his nearest surrounding using that.

At first I thought there are several ways to come to top and didn´t want to make a fuss of it, but I am truly stunned how big those airlines are by now. :o I just wanted to know if anything will be done that creates chances for us "regular" players to catch up. Cause under these circumstances we will never make it. :(

I'm using standard seats on my fleet of ATR's in DCA, I'm not complaining but I do feel a bit left behind when seeing some competitors eligible to invest in IPO's, I didn't even consider slimline seats

@thalyz

Currently I'm investigating the first problem ... usage of Let and Cessnas on large airports and herewith "reserving" slots. As we are at an early stage of the game, the ATO as owner of the aircraft is determining the leasing contracts. The rest will be discussed in single case decission.

isn't there a possibility in blocking cheap seats for c-class like in catering where you have minimum-requirements for c- & f-class?

another idea would be to use the rating of a plane or change the ratings (ratings of a let are still to good). before the start of aspern you said something about making it not economic to fly those planes to bigger airports but it seems to be still profitable otherwise those airlines would go bankrupt.

Yes - on the one hand we increased the costs so it is normaly not possible, but due to the usage of small seats in business and the increase of the business standard price it becomes economical again. We are discussing about minimum requirements for some classes but this is a mid term thing.

Yes - on the one hand we increased the costs so it is normaly not possible, but due to the usage of small seats in business and the increase of the business standard price it becomes economical again. We are discussing about minimum requirements for some classes but this is a mid term thing.

I find someone also use L4T in LHR ,are you going to close him who use 40+ L4T?    ;)

I'm pretty sure the leasing contracts are already terminated.

.... So it's simple,  AS team should make the rules, specifying how many cheap business seats per flight is cheating, and specified types of small planes in mega airport is cheating, also how frequent are the flights will be consider as cheating and what airport is mega airport, so far we see none. Before that we cannot judge others only because we THINK it's not right.

....

Exactly, without even an attempt to define what is "small", what is "big", what is "extensive", etc., no one has a legitimate title to judge whether a player is being "unfair" or not. To delete or reset their airline without invoking clearly-defined rules is equally unacceptable.

Furthermore, although we do not appreciate the "unfair" practices, but still those players deserve a chance to defend what they have done -- if not publicly, at least to the team. Not issuing clear rules upon which you make judgments is essentially to deprive them of the right to defense themselves. 

So, if something is to be done, e.g. deletion, resetting, termination of leasing contracts, etc., then clear rules are definitely required.

If no clear rule can be offered, you have to leave them alone.

These are single case decissions - you can't make a rule otherwise you could make directly a programm-query and not allow this. This depends on the airline itself, geogrpahical data, network etc. An Airline based on a pacific ocean island paradise may use small aircraft because they can not fill larger aircraft by the given demand. But using a 19-seater aircraft between New York and Washington or Boston is clearly not necessary. A larger aircraft can be used here without any problem. And using 20% of the slots of an airport to operate to mainly larger airports is not a fair play too.

And the usage of slimline HD seats in business class is obviously not the way an airline can operate. That you may get bookings is another thing, but no one ever asked for this or gave a hint about this. And the player using this bug knew very well what they were doing especially if they are already known from other game world to use each possible loopholes, but also for the others. Or do you really want to tell me that you put the lousiest seats in Business and don't think that it might be wrong if there is a good booking on that. At least one could have asked ... but no one did.

Just additional thought. Maybe the team will consider it.

CGK (Soekarno Hatta, Jakarta, Indonesia) forbids propeller planes to takeoff or land in that airport, unless it is emergency landing. No commercial flights out and inbound this airport are props. All of them are jets. Because the prop flights were moved to HLP (Halim Perdanakusuma, Jakarta, Indonesia). This happens in reality. You can go check the local policy or fly there to see no propeller in that airport.

I was thinking, what if we implement this rule to AS?

No prop for busy and super-duper-mega airport. Or for cities with more than one airport (with one of them are mega airport, and one other are small airport) can splits the flight into types of engine.

But this is just a thought.

:D

PS:

Well I was thinking that AS wil at least implement this in CGK, hihihi... I'm sick of seeing ATR's flying to this airport in AS, as in reality, there is no ATR allowed to land there.

Lx115mail, just a question is it normal to have 3 aircraft turing the same rotations at the same landing and departure times from the same airports. In real realistic live this would never happen, first you would not get that type of slot, second, the confusion for pax would be enormous.

I understand you want to play correctly but maybe playing by example is something to consider. I dont want to judge on your strategy but this is not realistic or im i seeing this wrong.

And the usage of slimline HD seats in business class is obviously not the way an airline can operate.

In AS it certainly works. Like I mentioned in the German topic to this:

LHR-HKG??

What is the exact duration of that flight with a 788?

Well, too long for 381 C seats

381 C seats... Seriously??

And that is only ONE of several world wide routes to discover within that airline.

How is a "regular" airline able to keep up with this? And that is not a rhetorical, but a SERIOUS question to the team.

These are single case decissions - you can't make a rule otherwise you could make directly a programm-query and not allow this. This depends on the airline itself, geogrpahical data, network etc. An Airline based on a pacific ocean island paradise may use small aircraft because they can not fill larger aircraft by the given demand. But using a 19-seater aircraft between New York and Washington or Boston is clearly not necessary. A larger aircraft can be used here without any problem. And using 20% of the slots of an airport to operate to mainly larger airports is not a fair play too.

And the usage of slimline HD seats in business class is obviously not the way an airline can operate. That you may get bookings is another thing, but no one ever asked for this or gave a hint about this. And the player using this bug knew very well what they were doing especially if they are already known from other game world to use each possible loopholes, but also for the others. Or do you really want to tell me that you put the lousiest seats in Business and don't think that it might be wrong if there is a good booking on that. At least one could have asked ... but no one did.

By "single case decisions", you are still saying that you would make judgement with your own standards, or with the standards of only a few people, whom we - ordinary players - can only pray to be sensible, prudent, and fair.

Anyway, I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

I agree with your idea that most people would have a sensible idea and criterion of what is "realistic" or "fair", and yes, no one in real business would put lousy economy seats to business class and charge a lot of money.

But, those "unrealistic" practices are practically possible in the game, if the player really intends to do so.  You may call that "making use of loopholes" or "unfair play", but hey, they did not create those loopholes, nor did they hack into the server to change data or stuff. They can do that simply because first, it is technically allowed, and second, there is no clear rules to regulate them.

So, if you would like to put an end to it, either mend the loopholes, or formulate clear rules, stating we consider what and what to be unfair practices or cheating and should be forbidden, or the airline may be deleted or reset.

Otherwise, you can only resort to moral attitude, which is what is being done right now, that we call for fair play. But what I find unreasonable is, AS's expression implies that they would take legal measures on moral stuff, i.e. delete or reset the airlines that are not playing fair. It is essentially the same with fining someone or putting someone into prison because he is mean to others. Do you find it acceptable? Maybe you do, but I don't.

Lx115mail, just a question is it normal to have 3 aircraft turing the same rotations at the same landing and departure times from the same airports. In real realistic live this would never happen, first you would not get that type of slot, second, the confusion for pax would be enormous.

I understand you want to play correctly but maybe playing by example is something to consider. I dont want to judge on your strategy but this is not realistic or im i seeing this wrong.

Yes,  "In real realistic live this would never happen", but in real realistic live, most of us, maybe including you, wouldn't even have the chance to run an airline. So with your logic we being here is already unrealistic.

I do not hope you would agree with my strategy but l'll explain anyway, or people would suspect me to be one of those "unfair" players -- as you already intend to imply.

NKG is only a medium-sized airport, meaning I am not able to endlessly add flights on any route, no matter how under-served it is. But the slots will get more and more jammed in the future, and adding or shifting flights will grow increasingly difficult. But I do not have that much money to star with many 321s or 737s, and A81 is a relatively very profitable small-sized aircraft, if you do some comparison you can easily find out. The flights you see are with A81, later will be replaced with 321 or 737. I also set the schedule in a way that replacing with 787 is possible without any change of time. 

And, given the market size at NKG I can only do departure and arrival waves for transfers to grow bigger. This is why you see many flights have the same dept and arr time. If you have the decency to also look at my whole schedule you'll see four distinct waves. Outside those waves, I hardly take any slot.

So, by leaving room for replacing smaller aircraft with bigger ones without taking further slots, and forming distinct waves for transfers, I consider myself already a respectable example. But surely you don't see it this way.

But, those "unrealistic" practices are practically possible in the game, if the player really intends to do so.  You may call that "making use of loopholes" or "unfair play", but hey, they did not create those loopholes, nor did they hack into the server to change data or stuff. They can do that simply because first, it is technically allowed, and second, there is no clear rules to regulate them.

Just one comment: In most of the online games, this is related to take advantage of a bug. Normally those account will be deleted, banned, or the advantages being stripped afterwards.

Just one comment: In most of the online games, this is related to take advantage of a bug. Normally those account will be deleted, banned, or the advantages being stripped afterwards.

I know, what I do is only suggesting how to make the handling of this problem more transparent, more convincing --- to make a good thing better.

The damage has already been made. Some airlines on Aspern will never be taken over in numbers by others because of their headstart. So if that´s the fact then why don´t leave Aspern to them and create a new... a better world where everyone loves each other :wub: