About Fair Play

English Boards General
21

Hi,

if it is too difficult to limit the number of passengers on a new server, perhaps it is possible to change the minimum rating for passengers to book a flight.

At this moment, passengers will not book a flight if the rating is lower than 1. Perhaps you can change that minimum rating to... 15 or 20 ? Or a different minimum rating for the different classes ? Something that allows players to ask 50% more for their tickets, than they could get away with on an established server. That would allow players to make extra profit on a new server, and it leaves enough of a margin so you don't accidently block airlines who operate in the grey zone.

I also have a remark on locking the previous thread (about the same topic). The players who used/abused the system, obviously did not like that discussion or the direction it was going to. So they locked the discussion. That is an easy strategy... I don't like a discussion, so I shall insult other people and the moderator will lock the thread. Can't you just ban such members for a few days ?

Jan

22

This Gamerule is a temporary fix. We are of course looking for solutions so these loopholes will be closed. But please also understand that if we tell you or we programm that for example that Lets and Cessnas can only fly between Airports with one or 2 bars it would be a very clear rule but then you will not be able to use the plane on other occasions you may want to. It will be too restrictive and that is what we don't want. Just use common sense. A small plane is there to connect small airports or airports with little demand to connect with bigger markets and hubs. But if you start in big markets like the EU,USA, India, China, Indonesia then you don't have to start with these small planes. You can easily use EMB, B737, A320, CRJ ........ If you start on small planes you do it for one reason .... to block slots. If  you do it in combination with using slimHD seats or as mike posted flying intercontinental routes in in high density C class then you do it for one purpose and you know exactly what you do and why you do this....... this happens not by mistake. And only those who do this deliberatly will face the action. 

23

Or do you really want to tell me that you put the lousiest seats in Business and don't think that it might be wrong if there is a good booking on that. At least one could have asked ... but no one did.

The lousiest seats in Business are exactly what you get if you choose to let the system create a default configuration (which happens to be the standard setting for a new airline, by the way). In my book this would be a pretty good hint that lousy seats are acceptable.

As I wrote earlier in another thread: I don't think that Earth Stand and others who made good use of this behaviour are the (only) ones to be blamed. A big part of the problem was the increase in the business standard fare which encouraged some players to use more C seats (up to 100%) and also made it possible to operate LETs at mega airports with good profits. Why was this increase implemented in the first place? Looks like a poorly tested last minute change in an attempt to compensate for weaknesses in the new seating configurations, but that's just a guess.

24

And a wrong one, but I can undestand that it looks like this. If you compare the seating space needed for the seats, you can easily find the reason for the standard price adjustement.

25

[...]

At this moment, passengers will not book a flight if the rating is lower than 1. [...]

Are you sure?

Or means that, that the overal rating must be lower than 1?

(pic from Aspern 25DEC)

Regards,

Tom

26

Overall rating

27

The lousiest seats in Business are exactly what you get if you choose to let the system create a default configuration (which happens to be the standard setting for a new airline, by the way). In my book this would be a pretty good hint that lousy seats are acceptable.

Ehm - don't believe that one. We checked it on the test server and you would never receive a default automatic setting with slimlineHD seats.

28

So which seats do you get? In the old system it was all standard seats, the lowest available seat.

29

Comfort, Recliner Longhaul and Lie-Flat 160

30

[size=4]Yes, [background=#f7f7f7] " But surely you don't see it this way.[/b]

I never said anything like this so please dont put words in my mouth. I just mentioned that it was strange. Even after your explanation. I would have chosen for departures 15 min apart giving more room to change to other destinations as you mention. Return flights also need slots:).

But this is not the discussion, the discussion is how to make the game fair, more realistic and more fun.

Ps i was CEO, running a real live airline so i do believe i know what i was talking about. We at our airline xxx have been using this simulation for trainees as it works like a real airline in many ways. The best part is the excellent wave planning functions and tools to do so. So yes its so good that real airlines look at this simulation for training.

31

I never said anything like this so please dont put words in my mouth. I just mentioned that it was strange. Even after your explanation. I would have chosen for departures 15 min apart giving more room to change to other destinations as you mention. Return flights also need slots:).

But this is not the discussion, the discussion is how to make the game fair, more realistic and more fun.

Ps i was CEO, running a real live airline so i do believe i know what i was talking about. We at our airline xxx have been using this simulation for trainees as it works like a real airline in many ways. The best part is the excellent wave planning functions and tools to do so. So yes its so good that real airlines look at this simulation for training.

Maybe you did not mean it, but the way you put it insinuated it. 

The reason I set the schedule this way, to answer your question, is because I am sure those routes can feed those flights, even if I change all small planes into B787s. I have played on other servers and I know the Chinese market. So for those aircraft, it is very unlikely that in the future I will change to other destinations. All I need is a once-and-for-all schedule.

Another reason is if I want the plane to be back before the next departure wave, I have to let it go early, so when they return they can still fit into the last arrival wave. So you see several flights depart almost at the same time in the beginning of a wave, because they have to go and they also have to be fit into the departure wave.

32
On CRJs in real world, there are quite a few airlines that chose to offer the standard seats for business class. 
Those seats are the exact same ones with economy class. However, they offer better service, priority boarding, etc.
 
Here is a video about the CRJ1000. The explanation about business seat starts at 00:45.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb1WKEnAits
 
Also, there are some low cost airlines in real world, who offer standard seats on their business products.
 
For example, Spring Airlines, the largest low cost airline in China.
They have a product called 'Business Economy Seat', marketed as 'SpringPlus‘.
http://www.china-sss.com/en/Activitiesall/Activities26
Basically the seats are the same. They just provide the first few rows in their A320 as this 'Business Economy Seat'.
http://www.china-sss.com/en/Static/ChooseSeat
They offer complimentary meals, drinks, towels, extra baggage allowance, etc.
 
This is the same with what we do in the game. We could offer very good service, even though the seats are small.
 
Have a look on the Top 30 airlines in Aspern. Almost all of them are using small seats in higher classes.
Also, have a look on the Top 50 airlines, most of them are using high business class ratio in their fleet. Only 30% of them are ES members, and they did not invent it.
This business strategy is NOT banned before, and it represents strategies in the real world.
 
’Fair Play' is kind of a fuzzy concept. Do you think in the real world, low cost airlines are playing in a fair way compared to traditional airlines? Many low cost airlines in the real world were not accepted by the industry in the beginning because of their so-called 'unfair competition' with bad seats and no service. But after all, they have formed their important part in the airline industry and billions of people fly with them every year. There is no 'real fair' for everyone. It's the market economy. If we want it to be ideally fair, then it becomes communist economy and it makes no sense.
 
I fully agree with AS if the AS team does want to change the rules. But, please make sure that the new rules are clear enough for everyone to comply. This move should not be done by suddenly making a new rule and start resetting airlines that used this kind of seats which is within legal limits before.
 
Thank you, AirlineSim is an awesome game.
Merry Christmas!
33

Some ES airlines are already leaving ES ... (e.g. my competitor) ... probably they do not want to become part of "investigation"... but there are logs on who was a member of ES at the time.

Myself, as I had to respond to my competitor installing Slim HD seats, so as I have stated in the other thread I have done that previously during the past week on about half of my fleet (new arrivals), I am making a statement here to install at least Leisure Plus in business class on low competition routes and will keep the recliner shorthaul on the other part of fleet. I will see what my competitor does with his new arrivals from now on and if he does convert at least part of his fleet back to reasonable C/F config.

34
Have a look on the Top 30 airlines in Aspern. Almost all of them are using small seats in higher classes.
Also, have a look on the Top 50 airlines, most of them are using high business class ratio in their fleet. Only 30% of them are ES members, and they did not invent it.

My competitor, ES was advancing too much. After I started to check and recheck and experiment I found out he was using slimline HD in Y and C with 50% and 35% markup respectively. Ihad t copy it in order not to stay too much behind (but the gap is growing by the day now). SO of course you will have many airlines doing it who are not ES member. Because they had to copy what ES was doing in order to be at least trying to fight the increasing gap.

35

My competitor, ES was advancing too much. After I started to check and recheck and experiment I found out he was using slimline HD in Y and C with 50% and 35% markup respectively. Ihad t copy it in order not to stay too much behind (but the gap is growing by the day now). SO of course you will have many airlines doing it who are not ES member. Because they had to copy what ES was doing in order to be at least trying to fight the increasing gap.

I'm using standard seats in business for this very reason and I think there is quite an amount of players who did the same (although I dont use it anymore on newly ordered planes).

My airline has been reported (Support told me the report was filed in regards to the seating configuration . I'm a very small fish compared to others).

I decided to be proactive and asked support if I violated any game rules. I have not received a clear answer to that.

Apparently people have now a new "job" where they just report everyone who they "think" is up to something....

I'm all for banning the people who use LETs/Cessna/whatever with HD-Slimline business configuration in combination with slot blocking. That is obviously cheating. However, seating configurations should be up to the player and the market always decides what works and what not. The player who has now 50-100 planes with HD configuration will be forced to react by the market. 

The other option is to say, Standard and HD slimline seats are forbidden in Business class and cannot be selected when creating a new configuration. 

This stuff needs to be clarified once and for all.....I'm now all confused in this matter

36

I don't intend to continue a game where a part of the players divert the varied possibilities  by the game in their profit to take an illegitimate advantage on the other players.

A word to the wise is enough.

37

I'm using standard seats in business for this very reason and I think there is quite an amount of players who did the same (although I dont use it anymore on newly ordered planes).

My airline has been reported (Support told me the report was filed in regards to the seating configuration . I'm a very small fish compared to others).

Apparently people have now a new "job" where they just report everyone who they "think" is up to something....

My company and some of my fellow alliance (quite a small aliance) members have been reported as well. I guess I will need to report couple of companies myself just for the sake of reporting... I will make it 20 just for the fun of it.

38

I guess I will need to report couple of companies myself just for the sake of reporting... I will make it 20 just for the fun of it.

:lol:

39

My company and some of my fellow alliance (quite a small aliance) members have been reported as well.

Perhaps it is a new strategy by someone using the loophole to avoid detection by flooding the system with reports until nobody is willing to read trough all of them...nah just kidding, but seriously, I don't understand why somebody reports all the airlines which are playing fair, it will only increase the workload for the team...I reported one airline by myself, but before doing so I verified that he was using Slimline Seats extensively. I also got reported, but after reading again trough all the game rules and the latest announcement I can't find anything reportable in my company(I'm only using E195/E195LR aircraft with a decent configuration, C12Y92)...

40

Just additional thought. Maybe the team will consider it.

CGK (Soekarno Hatta, Jakarta, Indonesia) forbids propeller planes to takeoff or land in that airport, unless it is emergency landing. No commercial flights out and inbound this airport are props. All of them are jets. Because the prop flights were moved to HLP (Halim Perdanakusuma, Jakarta, Indonesia). This happens in reality. You can go check the local policy or fly there to see no propeller in that airport.

I was thinking, what if we implement this rule to AS?

No prop for busy and super-duper-mega airport. Or for cities with more than one airport (with one of them are mega airport, and one other are small airport) can splits the flight into types of engine.

But this is just a thought.

:D

PS:

Well I was thinking that AS wil at least implement this in CGK, hihihi... I'm sick of seeing ATR's flying to this airport in AS, as in reality, there is no ATR allowed to land there.

really like this idea! makes sense.