Differentiation of planes

Distinguishing the planes in a new temporary world. The starting point is the year of the first airplane produced.

For example, a temporary world with aircraft produced from 1960 to 1969 inclusive.

For example, a temporary world with aircraft produced from 1970 to 1979 inclusive.

For example, a temporary world with aircraft produced from 1980 to 1989 inclusive.

For example, a temporary world with aircraft produced from 1990 to 1999 inclusive.

For example, a temporary world with aircraft produced from 2000 to 2009 inclusive.

For example, a temporary world with aircraft produced from 2010 to 2019 inclusive.

I'd rather see a world with aircraft from 1980 to 1989 inclusive. Started without used aircraft. Double slots.

Here are some of the airplanes produced during this period.

1986 Antonov AN-72 / Cargo

1982 BAE 146-100 / 100 passengers

1982 BAE 146-100QT / Cargo

1988 BAE 146-200 / 118 passengers

1985 BAE 146-200QC-Convertible / Cargo / 118 passengers

1984 BAE 146-200QT / Cargo

1987 BAE 146-300 / 124 passengers

1987 BAE 146-300LR / 124 passengers

1989 BAE 146-300QT / Cargo

1984 Boeing 737-300 BGW / 149 passengers

1984 Boeing 737-300 HGW / 149 passengers

1984 Boeing 737-300F / Cargo

1984 Boeing 737-300QC-Convertible / Cargo / 149 passengers

1988 Boeing 737-400 BGW / 188 passengers

1988 Boeing 737-400 HGW / 188 passengers

1989 Boeing 737-500 BGW / 138 passengers

1989 Boeing 737-500 HGW / 138 passengers

1988 Fokker 100 BGW / 109 passengers

1988 Fokker 100 IGW / 109 passengers

1980 McDonnell Douglas MD-81 / 172 passengers

1981 McDonnell Douglas MD-82 / 172 passengers

1985 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 / 172 passengers

1987 McDonnell Douglas MD-87 / 139 passengers

1987 McDonnell Douglas MD-88 / 172 passengers

1984 Tupolev TU-154M / 180 passengers

1980 Yakovlev YAK-42D / 120 passengers

A historic world has for long been in the "suggesting stage", though my personal opinion is that if we should do a historic world we should also attempt replicating the circumstances of the time. For example no open skies, different demand, change in markets (for example Dubai would have very little demand). Airlinesim got the advantage over the competition as it runs real time with very realistic aircraft data and personally I am not sure if running various periods of history would promote realism. If a historic version would be developed the amount of data to be researched would be substantial and I am not sure if our small volunteer team (who pay for their credits) could handle that. A historic world might happen some time in the future but it is not currently in the planning stage.

But not all of us want what you want?

@THRACIAN you are committing a huge argument fallacy… I leave it up to you to investigate which argument fallacy it is :slight_smile:

There has never been 16.000 active users. Ever. Of those 2061 players you mention, a lot of them are the same people playing on more than 1 gameworld. Maybe 1800 separate users on these gameworlds, I would guess.

Adding another gameworld will not add more players. It will remove players from other gameworlds. Every time a new server is introduced, every single other server see lots of people disappearing.

Starting a new server isn’t just something that’s free. It’s actually very very expensive.

There are also many reasons for people to leave. Some players like temporary worlds, some have other hobbies or family or no time and some are bored for whatever reason. That's why players are leaving.

I understand your argument and that you count the total amount of community members but you need to remember that this forums version is 6 years old and many of those 17000 members are not in this community anymore. I believe Airlinesim has anyways kept a pretty good number of them. If you compare to my previous minecraft community which had thousands of registered users but currently has 3 active users. Sure a vote can probably be done if you organise it to prove your point but as you have so far not gained any supporter for this idea and five team members have been sceptical of the idea. Thank you for submitting the suggestion but I am afraid that it probably wont happen for the time being (Martin still got the final word her and we might be wrong). 

I always loved the idea of a (temp) server with unrestricted slots just for the sake of seeing all that mess…

It would solve the “slot blocking” issue, but it certainly would NOT achieve what the TO might have in mind.

Again, I’d love seeing such temp world, but with a precaution to all players that it could get highly frustrating :wink:

Thinking of it, if you have unlimited slots there is no reason to slot block, so a good portion of the mess would not be actually happening in the first place.

Thinking of it, if you have unlimited slots there is no reason to slot block, so a good portion of the mess would not be actually happening in the first place.

In the first place yes, but it would get really messy in a later stage.

Mathematically at least. And usually math works in AS.

Hence I’d love to see a real test just for the fun it.

OK, so first complaint of new players in a historic game world is lack of slots to allow them to operate LHR-JFK from day 1. Your solution solves that. The 2nd complaint of those new players is mega airlines making it impossible to compete, how does no slots solve that?

In the current environment the one with a higher frequency between two airports will win. If he can get a high enough load that is.

It would basically end up with the demand being the limiting factor.

In the current environment the one with a higher frequency between two airports will win. If he can get a high enough load that is.

It would basically end up with the demand being the limiting factor.

Exactly.

Given the current game setup, we’d end up with the following scenario:

Smallest possible airframes with the biggest possible seats.

Average margins zero with only those players profiting who know game mechanisms best. Newbies with even less chance than currently.

I still don’t see where new booking classes help in all this. As long as demand distribution isn’t changed it can only make things worse.

Well, with the new booking classes and new demand. If the demand is perfectly balanced, a new player could unlock some untapped demand by offering a different service. I would also hope that the demand is cut down a bit, so that the demand is less than the maximum slots. Though that is unlikely.

Sorry but you are the one that started the no slots suggestion, but agreed this has drifted. 

The suggestion has been made many times but the real crux of the issue is where do you stop? Say you pick a year...1987. Great so you only have aircraft that are in production in 1987, but what about airports? Should we only have airports that were open in 1987? Then what about their slot availability due to layouts, how were they in 1987? and then passenger numbers.

I for one would love to see a historic server but would only like to see it implemented if it was well researched and accurate to that period

I think they chose to have all aircraft available on Otto to make it interesting, and be aware that all those models are available in some other game world, but maybe just not in new. Another thing i want to add is the IL18 issue is the price was wrongly listed for the Otto: per Wikipedia, it about $24,500,000 (2011 USD equivalent) in the real world, not the one listed in game. This is similar to the price for an ATR, or maybe a little bit cheaper than that. I doubt it would be an issue if the price is right, and the IL18 dumping issue would not even occur. 

Your suggestion is different from Otto server because you want a historical server, so it brings up all other questions about airports and slots. if you want this type server, you definitely want to make it right, especially Airlinesim is promoted to make it 'real', not just a game. If it's not your thought, then it would probably be Otto server again because you are not going to have different servers running with different aircraft from different time period available in new. 

...

Apparently there is a misunderstanding. How is it possible to have new aircraft from 1959 to 2017 on Otto 2 ?

Can not there be any from 1980 to 1989 years !? I do not understand what the difference !?

The game only includes types that are either available for order or still in service in certain quantities - today.

And that’s the very difference.

If you pick a year - let’s take the mentioned 1987 - for a new server, you’d get the following:

  • today’s demand structure (which is actually supply in many cases)

  • today’s infrastructure (landing in Chek Lap Kok instead of Kaitak, Den Intl. instead of Stapleton? Really?)

  • only aircraft that where offered not later than 1987 AND have existing database entries

That’s no Caravelle, DC-4/6/7, Comet, CV-990, 720/707-120, Mercure etc…

Doesn’t feel right, does it?

I don’t get you guys. Yes, he wants a historical server with planes that were available up to 1987. New types should not (yet) exist on this server.

Of course, you can make it super perfect and invest hundreds of hours researching the demand from 1987, adjust airports, add missing aircraft types and I don’t know what. But that’s not the point.

Not all things have to be 100% perfect. Why not have a world, where demand is a bit different, a few newer airports exist, but you’re restricted to some specific aircraft? That’s as “real” as Otto II, with brand new DC8 and 727s. Nobody was bothered by that fact.

I can perfectly understand his idea and believe it can make sense. I might object to that only cos Quimby now also has old aircraft so it’s kinda a similar thing.

I don't get you guys. Yes, he wants a historical server with planes that were available up to 1987. New types should not (yet) exist on this server.

Of course, you can make it super perfect and invest hundreds of hours researching the demand from 1987, adjust airports, add missing aircraft types and I don’t know what. But that’s not the point.

Not all things have to be 100% perfect. Why not have a world, where demand is a bit different, a few newer airports exist, but you’re restricted to some specific aircraft? That’s as “real” as Otto II, with brand new DC8 and 727s. Nobody was bothered by that fact.

I can perfectly understand his idea and believe it can make sense. I might object to that only cos Quimby now also has old aircraft so it’s kinda a similar thing.

Thinking about it again, I’ve got to admit the idea for such fun server is growing on me.

I’d vote for including everything that had it’s EIS not later than 1979. That’s roundabout the time when industry stopped designing interesting aircraft - IMHO at least.

Me might want to change fuel prices and noise regulations though.:wink:

Airplanes produced more than 10 years ago can not compete with new models from 2016.

It is therefore necessary to have a division of aircrafts by years.

With CS100, it makes no sense to order A318 and B736 under the current game conditions. If the hours of production and delivery change, there may be a level playing field.

CS1 Quantity produced 1 / 60h - Bombardier CSeries 100

CS3 Quantity produced 1 / 60h - Bombardier CSeries 300

318 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - Airbus A318

736 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - Boeing 737-600

L4T Quantity produced 1 / 168h - LET 410UVP

SU9 Quantity produced 1 / 72h - Sukhoi Superjet 100-95, Sukhoi Superjet 100-95LR

T20 Quantity produced 1 / 180h - Tupolev TU-204-100, Tupolev TU-204-120, Tupolev TU-204-300

AT7 Quantity produced 1 / 48h - ATR 72

AT5 Quantity produced 1 / 60h - ATR 42

DH4 Quantity produced 1 / 48h - Bombardier Dash8-Q400 NextGen

CRJ Quantity produced 1 / 30h - Bombardier CRJ 700, Bombardier CRJ 900, Bombardier CRJ 1000

EBR Quantity produced 1 / 30h - Embraer 170, Embraer 175, Embraer 190, Embraer 195

C27 Quantity produced 1 / 60h - Comac ARJ21-700, Comac ARJ21-700ER

Quimby VI - CS1 vs. A318 & B736 : Results 1,122 - 193

Quimby VI CS1 available seats - 130 available Cargo - 17 in operation 2016 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 1,122 List price - 39,000,000 AS$ - Bombardier CSeries 100

Quimby VI 318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2002 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 65 List price - 40,700,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 light

Quimby VI 318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2004 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 7 List price - 42,000,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 medium

Quimby VI 318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2001 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 7 List price - 44,800,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 heavy

Quimby VI 736 available seats - 136 available Cargo - 13 in operation 1998 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 106 List price - 40,500,000 AS$ - Boeing 737-600 BGW

Quimby VI 736 available seats - 136 available Cargo - 13 in operation 1998 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 8 List price - 49,000,000 AS$ - Boeing 737-600 HGW

The Bombardier CSeries family has the following firm orders and delivered aircraft totals, as of 30 June 2017

		  Ordered Delivered

CS100 123 8

CS300 237 6

Total 360 14

Support this idea much more than the floating price. Price is nothing for those big airlines. Waiting time increased by such factors would cause airlines to diversify, or wait patiently. Which would also decrease the gap somewhat between old players on a server versus new entrants.

It would be cool if the build times could dynamically change weekly, or on another set time frame, based on demand.