Found this infuriating game in early February. Have spent 11 weeks and 7 resets/liquidations trying to gain traction and understanding. Nothing works. I have watched YT videos but they start with $75 mil. and I’m in Idlewild starting with $10 mil. so not much help to be found.
I have tried starting small with 2 planes (2 new, 1&1, 2 old) and I have tried starting with 10 planes (9 “feeders” used CRJ 200’s and 700’s but with great seats and cut rate pricing and then 1 737-900 to go between STL/LAX/LGA where my feeders fly into).
My current attempt has brought me to the point of quitting and I thought someone on here may give me a better plan or tell me why I am getting very few Customers or Freight. I don’t want to be the biggest airline ever in 6 days time but if I can’t even break even $$$ after 2 weeks…no reason to keep trying.
My current attempt: Charlotte is Hub. I leased 2 NEW CRJ 1000’s with Leisure Plus (Economy) and Comfort (Business) installed. Extra Pitch for all. 76/9 capacity. No First Class on these 2 planes.
I bought a 737-900 and put same seating + 6 Lie Flats in First Class. 115/15/10 Capacity. Extra FA on all configurations as well
My CRJ’s are flying from major US midwest and east coast cities into Charlotte (and back) 6 days per week. My 737 does a simple LAX>MEX>CLT>MEX>LAX those same days. The 737 does an LAX>CLT>EWR>ORD>LAX on the 7th day
I lowered the pricing on all flights (CRJ and 737) to be at or below the lowest price shown in ORS and usually by a considerable margin. Just want butts in seats!
After delaying 3 days to activate Flight Plan, I do not have a single flight with more than 6 passengers, and many are 0/0 or 0/0/0. So if this game is based on real world demand, it’s telling me that there’s not a single person that wants a $129 flight from New York to Chicago or nobody from Detroit needs to fly to Charlotte for basically nothing on a new plane with great seats??? BS!
Anyway, thanks for following my rant. Any help or tips appreciated (except join a new world with more starting $) as I love/hate this game.
Thanks,
Pie
First of all, Hi there! I just want to say that it’s pretty normal to coninually fail when you’re first learning the game. I’ve gotten to a point where I can build a pretty big airline pretty consistently, and sometimes even I have to restart a few times before my airlines ‘stick’, so to speak. There are a couple of things here that could be sources of difficulty, and I’ll try and explain them as best as I can.
World Type
You’ve chosen to start up on a long-term world. This is no mean feat, because the fact that the world has run continuously for years means airlines get HUGE and very ingrained in the markets in which they opperate. You’ll find that the rotating temporary game worlds are far more forgiving since companies come and go more frequently. If, however, you’re set on a long-term world, look for fertile places to start. They occasionally pop up in the Big Thread of Opportunities.
Starting Location
Your chosen starting location, especially on a long-term world, is probably making things more difficult. In general, the most difficult markets to start out in are China, the EU, and the U.S. Unless you get in early, it can be extremely challenging to wedge yourself into these markets. In the case of CLT in specific, this is a large airport and I’m guessing one or more carriers dominate the arrivals/departures board. If you want to start an airline in the U.S., start at a smaller hub and build your way up. To answer your question, there are plenty of people who want to fly from New York to Chicago - they do it on airlines with better connections.
Fleet Choice
In general, you want to build a fleet that has just about as much “feeder service” as it does “mainline service”. In your case, the CRJs are the feeders and the 737s are the mainline service. Airlinesim is a game that works off of connections first and foremost, so the ability for a customer to buy a ticket that connects through your hub is the most essential condition for success. That said, when you’re just starting out, it doesn’t always make sense to opperate larger, mainline jets. It might well be argued that you’ll do better with a whole bunch of little jets to start off (~CRJ1000/E190/5), since the connectivity they can provide outweighs the advantages of a larger jet like a 737 at least at first.
Service Classes
Remember that last bit I said about connectivity? That comes up again here. For instance, First Class on your 737s doesn’t make much sense from the standpoint of connections - if none of your feeders have First, you won’t get first-class passengers from all of your connecting cities. This means you’re using valuable cabin space to carry passengers just between your hub and other large cities. Other airlines are almost certainly doing the same, only they have connections on either end. This means their first class seats have much more chance of being filled than yours do.
Route Network
Again, connectivity is your friend. The way you’re running your 737 doesn’t make a whole lot of sense from a connections standpoint. In theory, you’re trying to use all of your feeders to get people from outlying airports to your hub, and then from your hub, you’re trying to get them to other large hubs. This doesn’t work if your mainline 737 is bouncing around the country and only ending up in CLT once per day! Even if your passengers can connect through your hub (which they might not be able to), the connection times induced by this scheduling pattern is hopeless. Perhaps the single most important strategic consideration in AirlineSim is departure waves - you want your planes to carry passengers in at set times of day, your want your passengers to connect as fast as possible, and then you want your planes to leave at set times of day. Rather than explaining it here, the tutorial available on ASRoutemap does an admirable job of explaining it.
Epilogue
There’s no subsistute for trial and error, so I encourage you to keep trying and keep failing. Other forum members may have additonal advice, but this should help you solve most of the problems you’re running into. I hope it helps!
Idlewild is using the old ORS system. Your seats are vwry bad for this. Check other options.
Idlewild is not easy in the US. Too many really big companies there. Check either other countries with less competition or other servers.
And you may want to search for tutorial for beginners here in the forum. Old but very helpful.
Thanks, both. I’ve spent a minimum of 1 hour every day for the past 10 weeks learning. I have steered clear of “new” game worlds because I don’t want to upset experienced players with newbie mistakes or having to reset liquidate every 5-7 days.
I did a game about 2 weeks ago (in Idlewild) with Puerto Rico as a hub and flew between Charlotte and South America from PR with a 737 and then feeder flights (CRJ 1000, CRJ 700, and 4 CRJ 200) to and from all the Carribean islands into PR. 6 feeders and the 737. Plenty of slots and great routes…8 days in and a majority of flights still only had 0-3 passengers and money running out.
I truly understand the feeder to hub (I’ve loved aviation for 50+ years) and then the bigger planes from there to other “A” and “B” airports. That is what broke my spirit this time. Just 8 airports between sizes 6-9 feeding into CLT and then CLT to MEX or LAX. Possible to have 300+ passengers from feeder airports to CLT prior to my 737 leaving CLT for MEX or EWR and still no interest.
Final question: How do people afford 5-10 feeders and 5-10 big jets on $10 million starting capital and cabin configuration costs? I really appreciate the help and support, guess I’ll try another world and research a better starting point than the US.
Personally, i think if you start on a new, temporary game world and play in the USA you’ll be okay. Just make sure you schedule your waves as tight as possible, and don’t bother with international flights until you have a sizeable number of weekly departures.
The USA is big enough to thrive on domestic traffic alone for a while as long as you schedule your waves correctly and stick to them. Make sure every single flight is on a wave even if the plane seems underutilized.
Playing in the USA is a great way to learn quickly how to survive and then thrive.
Just to be certain, you understand how the minimum transfer time works, and how to view what flights your incoming/outgoing flights are actually able to connect to?
Thank you for this feedback. I’m starting to think there is something in the financial part I don’t understand. I’m pretty sure I understand MTT works, I had 6 feeder flights arrive in CLT by 10AM (granted none had double digit passengers on them for 3 straight days), and then my CLT to EWR goes at Noon. 3 takers out of 140 seats.
The financial ($10M starting) restriction is what I’m starting to question. Is there an early game step I’m missing? Everything I research and feedback from you and others talks about “waves”. I understand that principle, but how can you create waves when the budget allows for 4 “leased new” CRJ’s at $1.4 mil/each and a 737 leased new at $3.1mil.? Those 6 planes cost $9mil of the start up $10M budget before cabins and that gives me 1 week to be full loads just to cover the Operating costs+leasing? That’s what I was trying to accomplish this time with waves into CLT and then just sending the 737 to 3 big cities.
I took feedback from this thread last night and switched game worlds to one with new ORS and setup HUB in a smaller SA country in a “E” airport and just leased 6 smaller planes (cost 8.5 mil of the 10) and am going to see. Certain flights are already 100% full this morning so promising, but I don’t know how I’ll ever see enough profit to buy a plane to leave the continent but…
Really appreciate all the help and guidance!
Thanks,
Pie
I don’t think your problem this time was the planes or the waves, it was the choice of destinations.
While you’re learning the game and the routes, if you’re going to start in the US, don’t do perm servers, do the shorter temp worlds, and stay with domestic travel until you have a much larger number of weekly departures.
Connecting all the size 8, 9, and 10 airports in the US (ORD, LAX, BOS, etc) will do you much better than trying to immediately fly to Mexico or South America.
Used planes is key here.
And again - Idlewild is hard to play on the US.
I will add something to the previous advice (which I think is very good): When I started playing AS many years ago I was very happy when 6 pax got on my little plane and flew from the airfield near me to Paris! Of course, this was not a business success and so I had to restart more often, just like many other players, this is perfectly normal. This learning process can be shortened with advice like the above from experienced players, but it can’t replace it completely. Decisive for absolute success (see my “LAKAIR CARGO” !) is the understanding of the strategy of this game: Since the game was made by German developers, they naturally built in their local life and work experiences. For example, workers and employees are protected by extensive legislation, a cowboy mentality like hire and fire does not exist here in Germany - Europe. Successful companies have employees who are well paid and whose fathers and grandchildren sometimes work in the company all their lives. Such employees are not fired because they are irreplaceable. This is built into the game, e.g. the training costs or severance pay in the event of dismissal. All this affects the image factor of the airline, which ultimately leads to an improvement in the rating, i.e. a rise in the rating of the travel system. For example, I always get the higher rating despite the same aircraft and the same price, because my employees are paid the best and are very satisfied! Thus my prices are always higher than the competition and increase my profit.
So pay your people properly and pay attention to the quality and the resulting costs (not more than three different types of aircraft) because of the maintenance costs that increase afterwards. Always good flight wishes Freddie Laker
I found, after a plethora of resets/liquidations, interlining was tremendously helpful. It will add more employees to weekly payroll, but they seem to pay for themselves quickly. Make sure you share a destination where you can swap passengers on connecting flights.
Just my 2p.
This. There’s also this high-risk strategy to start big with your airline. Lease multiple old jets and then scheduling them on multiple waves throughout the day. Your $10 million can come a long way with old jets.
You can buy dirt-cheap aircraft on the Aircraft Market section. However, old aircraft have higher maintenance costs and affect your airline image negatively. It’s good for a start, and then if you want to achieve a higher image you can gradually replace those old jets when you get the money.
Well, I’m still here and bought 500 more credits yesterday. Took all of the feedback (thanks to everyone!) and did some pen and paper planning. I am profitable with my venture I started on 4/19!!! After researching routes and slots and such, I “hubbed” in Lagos, Nigeria. I have 4 CRJ-700 and 1 CRJ-1000 flying into Lagos from 6 smaller airports in and around Lagos. Every flight is 90%+ filled and I’m currently net $475,000 per week.
I think it is time to fly a little farther (but stay in Africa). I have an “A” rating and 4.25 million in cash but have not been offered a loan. It’s been 3 weeks since inception and I’m basically just watching credits disappear instead of playing. I need about 8.5 million to do my next step but at the current net profit rate, that would be 9 weeks (378 Credits) of waiting and leave little buffer.
Why “The lenders do not consider loan requests from this enterprise…”?
Thanks again for the guidance,
Pie
Lease more planes with your 4.25 Mil in cash. Don’t wait for a loan. You will need 10 Mil in equity before you are granted a loan. Equity are seats, planes and terminals.
Well crap, that makes sense. Off to market.
I don’t need to start a subsidiary to be offered a loan? Just 10 mil in equity within my initial holding.
The Terminals part is still down the road, but that will take some handbook study, and probably anther posted question…lol.
Appreciated,
Pie
It does not matter if you have a sub or not.
I have just returned after around 3 years away. I used to have a big airline.
While I am not “disgusted” (I am quite happy), it is very very hard to start a new airline in an established game world. Harder than I imagined when I had my big airline.
I gave up in London on one game world, there is just to much competition in Europe and North America.
I have now found a long term game world (Xiguan) with capacity in Dubai DXB and that is looking better.
You might want to just try another game world if the one you are in is congested and you struggle to get any sort of loads. Sometimes it is just impossible if big airlines own the market.
Hello everyone that has replied to my whiny posts with great info!
Well, I’m still on the game that I started on 5/8 based out of Lagos,Nigeria. I’m being incredibly/overly patient and have amassed 18 airplanes flying all kinds of waves into Lagos. Only 1 plane goes on flights over 1,000km (and not leaving Africa at all) so really staying focused on Nigeria and immediate surrounding areas.
Got a request from 2 different airlines for interlining. Anybody want to give me a pros/cons reply? I’m not really sure what they are offering and if I accept, am I limiting my future route growth? The bigger airline that requested says I need 36 employees to staff. Feel like I’m being sold a timeshare condo in Missouri…
No longer “Disgusted”, now “Timid Skeptic”
Thanks,
Pie
An interlining agreement is an agreement for passengers of the two airlines to transfer between each other’s flights.
It’s exactly like your own connections except passengers can transfer to/from your IL partner’s flights.
As racsofp said.
Whether or not you need it depends on how well your airline is structured. If you do everything right, interlinings will not only cost you dollars but might also cause you unsold seats - as interlinings create assymmetries in your wave structures. The only interlining useful is one with your own daughter/sister that follows that exact same structure.
When you say that you have all kinds of waves with 18 airframes, then this doesn’t really sound well structured to be honest. Interlinings might be an option.
Hello Again. Another basic question for the experts.
How do players expand their fleets so quickly? 10 days ago, I started an airline in a game world that has only been active for 4-5 weeks. $10 mil starting capital. I have Leased 6 used aircraft (3-737,2-E-175, and 1-767). Routes are good and I’m making about $100-150K every day as profit. I have $1.7 million in hand. There are at least 15 other players that have 50+ aircraft already…how is that possible? I will have to wait 6-8 days to be able to afford another single used aircraft. Loans are not offered in Corporate Finance. How can a person have 92 planes in 27 days if you can’t finance with debt? What simple step am I missing? Do I need to start an Enterprise inside my holding at beginning to open up the banks?
Appreciate it,
Pie