Eccessive demand?

It looks like the global air traffic demand in airlinesim is significantly higher than it is in reality. Developed gameworlds show about 100mil passengers per week, which is more than twice the real life number. Perhaps its not really a problem, but does create some anomalies like certain routes that have 60+ daily flights (hnd-ngo on croydon) and high number of huge airlines. Just wondering what developers and other players think about it.


Rising Sun Airways @ Croydon

If there was real life demand, people would have trouble running a airline and the game would be too hard for a lot of people.

I got the impression too that some routes have an excessive demand which - as i think - makes growth way (!) too easy, especially at the beginning of a new server. On the other hand it seems nearly impossible to establish a roughly profitable route on some “off-mainstream” locations. For example: Establishing just “one” profitable route to BEW, GBE or MPM (with no competitors) is way (!) harder than to BUQ, HRE or LUN (all d:3/4). And just in case if it’s just my stupidity or whatsoever - observing the behaviour of bigger and (also or more) successful airlines from the aera seems to confirm my impression as they haven’t established (or tried to and closed again) routes to BEW, MPM etc.

Maybe, but i would think that the balance of costs to revenue is the main factor allowing the airlines to be profitable easily. Huge demand, on the other hand, allows airlines to grow really quickly to unrealistic fleet sizes.


Rising Sun Airways @ Croydon[/size][/color]


I tend to agree with Sasha… give us 50% more passengers and we lease 50% more planes.

The game would not be more difficult if there were less passengers; we would simply run smaller airlines. Nor would the game become easier. People would probably (sooner) invest their profit in terminals or owned planes. So older airlines would still have an advantage over new airlines.

But less passengers, and less flights, would make it easier to find free slots. And perhaps the server would be happier to let us use the ORS tool :P


Talking about new worlds, demand in them is increased incrementally based on active airlines. So the demand we have now, we don’t have at the beginning of the world (at least it was the case with the latest server).

And, each AS world has a limit of 1200 users, which is more that 1200 airlines. There are ~240 IATA members (international airlines). Ok, there are probably thousands of regional airlines and airlines with one small plane, but in AS we have way more bigger airlines (even bigger than in real world), therefore we have a higher demand.

But slots are based on more or less realistic numbers, which is a bit strange :)

I think the reason for the high passenger figures is not an excessive demand, but the non-competitive ground network. If you look at the mentioned route HND-NGO: How many people fly, and how many people go by train in real life? And there’s many more examples.

Still, your planes would not be that “easy” to fill. Scaling down also means scaling down passengers on non-trunk routes. That would give your Dash 8 networks a kick in the guts, obviously. Are you sure this would really result in more fun? I’d rather think doing so might scare away new players, who will find lots of slots, but no passengers willing to travel.

The conflict is realism vs. fun. I think the balance right now isn’t that bad at all.


I don’t know if more/less passengers would result in more/less fun. I wrote that in my opinion it does not make the game more or less difficult.

Not finding passengers results in failure and loss of players, but I doubt that new players find more passengers with the current system. At least, there are an awful lot of new players who give up after a short time. Just check the passengers/week statistics. Tempelhof has 1360 airlines, of which only 420 carry more than 1000 passengers per week. Part of the others probably gave up because they find the game (technically) difficult, but I would not like to offer free drinks to those who find it difficult to make a profit ;)

By the way, less passengers might just make the game a little easier for small airlines. I see mammoth airlines who send a fleet of jets to small airports 1500 kilometer from their hub. Airports that are in reality merely used for regional or domestic flights. If less passengers means that only a Dash can serve such airports, it would perhaps be easier for a small and local airline to survive.


This is a very important topic and should be bumped.

Personally I’d like to see realistic slot restrictions be put into place, prohibiting airlines from flying those 60x daily flights. This should be limited - no more than 10 daily round trips and thats generous I think.

Slot restrictions does not equal to round trips restrictions. Why should I be limited to 10 daily round trips if I want to make 20 between LHW and CDG with my 737-800 f.ex? to maximize my connection and IL efficiency?

There’s been a long long post on the old forums, with admin point of view, so not to be arrogant, but you should read it first and then think if it’s worth bringing that issue up again.

Sobelair makes an interesting point


But what would be a solution? Restriction to flights between International airports only in different countries? Don’t know if it would work and some people might be upset about this, cause you could only make a decent number of feeder flights only in large countries.

Either way, the current system is not perfect, but in my opinion further restrictions would make it unnecessary complicated.

Hm… euh… nothing.

I don’t think that would be a solution, and I did not suggest to restrict international flights to international airports only.

This started as a discussion about more or less passenger demand, remember ? I only stated that (in my opinion) less passengers would not make the game more difficult. We would only lease less planes. I added that less passengers might make it less attractive for mammoth airlines to send a jet to small airports 1500 km away. And this may make it easier for small and local airlines.

The only thing I suggested was that less passengers would not necessarily make the game more difficult. Don’t put words in my mouth that I did not say ;)


I’m not sure that holds water. If anything ‘mammoth’ airlines have more insight in the game and would sooner know that they need to use smaller aircraft for such services.

Like most things, if you change something, chances are it will hit the little guys harder than the big guys.

I am not sure either, Tim. We have few certainties in life ;)

An Airbus 320 or a 737 easily gets a 100/99 rating on a 1500 km flight. It is harder to obtain a 100/99 rating with a turboprop on these flights. That’s why I believe passengers would be tempted to take a cityhopper to the nearest major airport and take a connecting flight from there. And if that assumption is correct, less passengers may make life easier for new or small airlines.


I agree to limit the passengers number and to make international flights only from international airports. Maybe in a future world / server.

On Nicosia there seems to be an excessive demand in the US. All top 5 airlines are from the US.

that’s nearly the same on every server :rolleyes:

It isn’t so much excessive demand in the World, as it is excessive demand in the developed world portion of the game - which is unreal and unfair!

My problem with this game as in other simulation games is the overt and excessive concentration of passenger resource in Europe and North America. While this may be the reality and trend (and I am not suggesting otherwise), I have to point to the fact that the data and representation of most African and third world locations is unreal and under-represented! For instance, the passenger demand in intra-African routes is pathetic even when you are the only Airline flying you may not experience a full load on a frequency of 2 flights a day with a mere 100 seater plane. This is pathetic!! Africa may be the poorer continent it does not however mean there is no economic activity!!

To make matters worse, the African routes are also given extremely unrealistic default ticket prices that does not reflect reality! In reality, international and inter-continental flights from Africa are quite pricey. Case in point, British Airways consistently rates Lagos, Nigeria as one of its 5 best and most profitable routes! Delta and KLM are currently big players in the Lagos-US route (Along with BA). Now Delta only operated the Atlanta-Lagos route for 18-24 months before realizing how much action and profit they had missed in the past by neglecting this routes to Africa. Hence now, Delta is operating 2 flights a day (one to ABV) with this realization, and in the process Delta also upgraded Aircraft to a brand new 777-200 to accomodate the awesome market potentials and propensity for cargo along with passengers! Not to be left out, United Airways and Continental have joined in the Gold rush to the West African market which includes Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal and others. This realities are totally ignored in the game and you find your planes flying almost empty on this routes (as we speak, I am loosing 200K a day on this routes!)

The game’s propensity to skewer international passenger load against African countries is at odds with reality and does not reflect well on the game - it is excessive and inordinate! I delibrately refuse to play in Europe and North America becos it is too damn easy! - whereas in reality, profit margins in European and North American aviation sectors are very, very thin! In developing parts of the world, profit margins are a lot healthier, (even though many airlines suffer from mismanagement, scarcity of funds and politicization - all of which are not readily inbuilt factors in this game!) and should enjoy more robust performance by way of higher ticket prices becos of reduced competition. Further to the already disadvantaged position of African based Airlines in this game, there is also very weak demand for routes such as Dubai (an extremely popular african destination for vacation, shoppers and business alike). Dubai has over the years become the gateway for China and Chinese business. Most Chinese businesses seeking international and African patronage situate themselves in Dubai where African business reps can meet with, view products and consumate transactions!) This reality is part of the reason for Dubai’s continued expansion plus the fact that Visas are mostly not hard to get and is given on arrival! In the game, there were few airlines with any appreciable load or demand from Dubai! The neglect and unreal disadvantage apportioned to Africa in the game is fustrating and unreal! Makes you want to got to Europe - but we all can’t operate from Europe… can we??

Lastly, I do not know the precise logic or algorithm used to decide how much passenger a destination gets, however, I do know that it is relatively easy to decide how much passenger a location has by simply using the available data on how much passengers an Airport handled in a preceeding or current year! When I look at the figures for passenger traffic in South African (JNB) or Egypts (CAI), it does account for up to 25%-35% of traffic in developed nations such as LHR or CDG or MAD airports!! Unfortunately, in the game this values are not represented!! 2010 data for LOS in lagos is largely 10% of the traffic at LHR Heathrow (which is the busiest Airport in Europe) however this reality is not reflected in the game! AND I MUST HARP ON THE PRICING ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO AFRICA! As I pointed out earlier, in the developing world there may be fewer passengers but prices are generally more generous to the airline leaving them with a healthier margin (once again the game has overlooked this reality). For instance, a trip from Oslo (OSL) to Madrid (MAD) is 2418km and on the average (in the real world) and will cost about USD $204 (excluding taxes and fees). On the other hand, a trip from Lagos (LOS) to Dakar(DKR) is 2410km and will cost $428 on the average (excluding taxes and fees) and this reflects the general trend! I hope someone has enough clout to effect a consideration of this tweaks and changes to the game so as to ensure a reality based scenerio for the enjoyment of all.

i dont know where your problem is, the default or 100% prices are the same everywhere in the AS world, because they depend on distance

and yes, there are some profitabel routes, also in AS, for example my route MUC - NBO is very good

sure the data is not from today, what you expect ? that someone sit their all the time and bring it up to date ?

sorry, miserable critics


there is no need to be insulting! The essence of a forum is to voice concerns and to learn from each other. Also this discussions are the way and the tool that Game developer use to improve future variants of the game! Insulting others becos you are in a smug position with regards to an issue is both childish and unnecessary. Peace.