This topic has come up a couple of times on the discord, but I believe a forum post is a better place for this conversation. I wasn’t around at the time, but I understand that when the Ukraine war began in 2022, discussions here and here led to Martin artificially lowering the prices in response to community outcry.
Over the past couple months we’ve seen fuel prices increase from ~20 ASc$/l to 44 ASc$/l. Even with this significant jump, prices are still being manually adjusted by Martin to dampen the blow. While fuel prices are universal, I understand that the AGEX varies by server. Initially, it looked like Yeouido was headed for a market crash as the fuel prices rose, but the AGEX has since recovered.
My primary airline operates ~900 MD-80 and IL-62/86/96 aircraft. Due to the fuel spike, my profits have been cut by 50%. Yet, at the current AGEX, I could likely survive prices in the 80–90 ASc$/l range. Another player mentioned on discord that their modern fleet has, with some optimization, actually seen increased profits despite the higher costs.
This raises some questions for the community:
Are the high fuel prices an opportunity to punish inefficient airlines?
Do they only risk damaging new or growing airlines without large cash reserves?
Do we genuinely need this intervention or should we ask Martin to take off the training wheels?
Yhh them fuel prices be stinging. Im probably going to be downsizing soon since I’ve already grounded some aircraft in favour for more fuel efficient alternatives. That being said its certainly not as bad as the 2022 crisis, at least yet anyway.
I know my opinion is going to biased cause I have an airline that wants to make money so Im more curious of the general consensus from everyone else
I personally think its worth just monitoring at the moment but what I will say is that Summer season is coming & that is a bit of a concern which has been in the back of my mind ngl
IMHO the prices should reflect real world levels exactly. It would create some additional challenge for players, lead to some novel strategies/fleet choices and add extra flavour to the game.
With that being said, I did note someone on Discord suggesting it could make it tough for newer players to adapt. Perhaps having some worlds use real world fuel prices and some worlds without?
I am in favour of having real world fuel prices. Why? It’s a challenge! We see airlines growing quickly on server starts, and they usually have a huge advantage over younger airlines, because they had access to a basically unlimited market for used aircraft in an empty world. These old aircraft are ridiculously profitable, given their cheap leasing rates, resulting in high profit margins. Having them become less profitable due to their high fuel consumption could level the field by some amount. Sure, if you’ve put aside a lot of money you’ll be able to survive. But on the other hand, is there a better alternative to force those old airlines from the server start to actually work on their airlines instead of the usual “set up and forget” tactics?
Furthermore, Id like to point out the experiences we have made on Paine, where we see price wars. I really like that for the sake of game dynamics, and I guess we will see this roll out to other or new servers as well at some point. The combination of low fares and high fuel prices might eventually really be able to flip the board for younger airlines, who are generally speaking much more flexible in adjusting their fares and settings.
I think the question we should ask is: do we want to enable the mentioned “set up and forget” approach, or do we want to actually give those an advance who are willing to adjust?
That being said, maybe there should be a beginners server with easier conditions.
I am also in favor of realistic fuel prices. Real prices definitely increase the challenge but it is in alignment with the problems real life airlines face aswell. Fuel efficiency is one of the biggest reasons why airlines want new aircraft and that should be reflected in the game aswell.
On the other hand some sort of soft cap (maybe from 70$ upwards) would be beneficially for everyone as i think that too high prices might negatively influence the experience of all players.
E.g. from 70$ upwards every extra Dollar would only be reflected by half of it. So a calculated price of 72$ would end up being only 71$ and 80$ would result in 75$ etc. Obviously 70$ is just an example. The value could be lowered/increased to be a better fit.
That would prevent really high prices while still mostly reflecting the real world.
I think real fuel prices should be enforced on specific servers like pain(e). On some other old servers the fuel prices might be capped for nostalgic reasons etc
The problem is, as a new start airline, high fuel prices absolutely whack you as well, especially considering many new starters rely on those same older airframes.
As someone who has just started (yet again) in Paine, I can 100% confirm that the way to get any real market share is older airframes and quantity. You take a gamble on many, many routes and any unprofitability stings - never mind if fuel prices then sky rocket.
Ultimately, the big boys can shut down marginal routes and return aircraft leases (in some cases, more than 1000 airframes) to weather the storm. The little guys, who’ve just maxed out the $10mil and hoping to start making a meager profit have no chance at all.
If we’re wanting to level the playing field a little bit, things like unions going on strike at the big boys etc would be far, far better to help the smaller airlines.
If you are using popular types like Airbus, Boeing, CRJ and Ejets, fuel burn difference between newer (neo/max) and older (ceo/ng) types is just marginal. If you are using Russian types then ofcourse there is significantly higher fuel burn.
I have been playing this game for nearly 12 years, I believe what matters is a balance between fuel burn, mainenance costs and leasing costs. New aircraft have significantly high leasing costs, marginally lower fuel burn and lower maintenence costs. Older planes have advantage of lower leasing costs, bit higher fuel burn and way higher maintenance costs, so it depends on your strategy and market you are serving.
Regarding the topic I believe real world prices should reflect in the game. That is what makes it more challenging.
I believe following the real fuel price market is a good thing for the simulation. We certainly take a hit when it happens but we also have the option to increase our prices, services,…
I have been playing the game for almost 10 years now (wow) and I once managed to save one of my airlines on Ellinikon during a low agex period by upgrading the seat configuration of my fleet. I improved the load factor and was able to increase my prices.
I was at a conference last weekend and one of the panelists said that starting a business during a recession is a good thing because you will spend your cash more efficiently. I launched my first airline in summer, agex was low and by optimizing this airline I was able to grow and compete the big airline next door that struggled to adapt.
I of course understand that it makes the game harder for new players and new airlines. But it is also what makes this game unique and makes us stay for such a long period of time.
If you want realistic pricing on fuel, then the game should also introduce a fuel surcharge and change it as fuel prices change. Just following the fuel price itself is nowhere close to being realistic either and just make it purely a game effect. I can see you either downsizing or increasing prices for the current settings, which will only make it harder for new players on established servers. The older players would have most of the planes bought so they can suffer high fuel price longer anyway.
It’s probably more reasonable for the newer servers, where the players are less established and overall more active, to have real fuel prices without any additional changes to the game right now. The older server probably should just have a cap on the fuel price.
Entirely agree. Much like the real world, breaking into well established markets is very difficult on this game, nevermind when having to contend with high fuel prices. Perhaps a good compromise, to keep existing players engaged, whilst levelling the field, is a fuel subsidy for the first 4 weeks?
I also appreciate that, once established, there should be something more to keep players engaged. Whilst fuel prices may be part of this, union activities (I know its on the road map) may help? This could be broader than just pay - for example, you could choose pension programs, healthcare and benefits packages that could all feed into stuff mood?
