When I started I was also in the number one group, I did not know what I was doing, I knew no one playing this game. It took me at least a year before I started getting relations. But not ones did I go on the forum saying "I am an experienced player" and then ranting on how others have defeated me and starting to blaim something due to my own non existent experience of the game.
This is the strand from the official rules which we in the UAB judge from:
3.1. Fair Competition Every player has the right to fair competition. All activities your holding is involved in should be with the intention of making a profit. Running a holding or enterprise with the sole intention of damaging other companies, or bullying other players is forbidden
There is nothing stating that this is illegal end of.Ā
Each has his own opinion and his sense of justice. Everyone has already understood the situation. Each judge as he sees fit.I do not respect more players who started with this type of donation. Now, when I look at a big company, before admiring the CEO, I'll check to see if he's got these donations. You will not have my admiration anymore.If you want to come together to break my company, you can do it. After all, as you argue, it is personal relationships that command this game. My company is Air Wind, Aspern, Tulsa based.The subject is closed on my part.
@CBE
You should visit Aspern and spend 4 Credits.
Very easy to find out which Airline elsonsj2010 is talking about.
I was very surprises and lost a lot of confidence.
No credits are charged if you deactivate the gameworld before the full day is over. Also you can easily find the information, as I did, without even logging in to server.You should visit Aspern and spend 4 Credits.
All the relevant data is provided in the OP.
I was very surprises and lost a lot of confidence.
Confidence in what?
If that were correct, the AS would have a mechanism for direct leasing among 2 players, rather than requiring all leases to be made via the market. How do you do this favoring? In the darkness of the night, do they combine a secret schedule in which the planes will be offered? For if it be a lawful business, it may be done in the light of the day, that all may see.When you offer a leased plane in the market, everyone has the right to compete equally for it. But you rape it.The fact is that AS has no mechanism for direct leasing between 2 players, because this is illegal. The requirement of the AS to be made via the market means that the intention of the AS is that they all compete equally for the airplanes.
You are right - the cheap planes are offered on the market. So everybody has access to it. As we are all living in different time zones, you cannot say that is is done during the night.
Now let's look closer to it: 10 Mio are the start budget for everybody. That means that all players are equal when starting their company.
Infact, there are relationships between players. Some name it even friendship. But this relationship (for whatever reason - in this case not at all alliance reason) does not give someone advantage in comparison to others. Again - the leasing happened not in private mode but public on the market where all players on that particular server have access to. Competing for the airplanes is not prohibited, you are also right here that it is the official mechanism installed by AS. So perhaps it is bad luck that you have not been present. Another player grabbed 3 planes and he was not intended to receive them. So for a week he can fly with these cheap planes.
And there is another possibility which is open for every player: communication. You can ask huge companies for cheap planes. Most likely, you will find a company who will support you. Is this also illegal in your mind? I don't think it is. Definitely, it is not against the rules. And also not against at least my ethics, you may think differently about it.
I had this kind of support in my start of AS with also cheaper planes on some worlds. Not on Aspern as there were no big companies with enough money to support new players. Now I am giving back as I can afford it. Is this illegal? No, it is not.
Now last remark for you: you may argue that an AS member is part of that legal deal. But if you look into the history on Aspern, there are also other players which I supported before with cheap planes. They are all players I wished to have them playing on Aspern - as they know how to play the game. No alliance reasons involved as Rubio mentioned - no, it is my personal wish to have players on Aspern which are having fun. Not saying that you don't know how to play the game - but if you are interested in, I can tell you at least one mistake which you are still making.
@ Rainer: what is the difference between me doing this legal transaction and your alliance member? Did you also loose a lot of confidence here or are you judging with 2 eyes?
Nothern Denver was made from initial 10 millions + more than 150 millions donate by Highscore group in cheap leasing.
So, Nothern Denver was made almost full with Highscore group money.
Want you or not, in fact, Nothern Denver is not a subsidiary of Spezialist holding.
Want you or not, in fact, both Nothern Denverās are subsidiary of Highscore group, but operated by Spezialist.
Is this legal for you? Go ahead.
For me, itās a shame.
Sorry my bad English.
Not Northern Denver. The correct is Denver Northern.
Your English is very good.
But you are wrong: Northern Denver Denver Nothern is 100% Spezialist's company and not mine.
And yes - it is legal and not against the rules as he is another player than me, has created his own holding and sub and I have leased out planes over the public, used planes market and own the planes. Let me know which rule is saying that this is forbidden please.
It is your personal decision that you say "it's a shame". There is no reason to blame me or Spezialist. Check the fleet lists also on other servers - you might see that this procedure is very common.
Highscore, Iām seeing you are a gentleman and Iā m not kidding.
I really think you are wrong.
But, in respect with you, let me say Iām not blaming no one.
Sometimes, common procedures are wrong and even illegal.
Highscore, try to look this situation from the other side.
Is simply impossible to compete with a company like Denver Nothern if you do not have a godfather.
All we pay to play. All we have the right to start in a world with equal conditions.
Illegal means against rules - now show me please the rule which makes these transactions illegal. You will not find one.
Fair enough that you believe that this is wrong - it is your personal feeling. But don't say it is illegal as this is not part of personal feelings - therefore we have rules here in the game.
And just remember - it is only a game...
Highscore, try to look this situation from the other side.
Is simply impossible to compete with a company like Denver Nothern if you do not have a godfather.
All we pay to play. All we have the right to start in a world with equal conditions.
You have the same rights as all other players! There is nothing what you cannot do what other players are doing - asking others for cheap planes for example...
Illegal means against rules - now show me please the rule which makes these transactions illegal. You will not find one.
Fair enough that you believe that this is wrong - it is your personal feeling. But donāt say it is illegal as this is not part of personal feelings - therefore we have rules here in the game.
And just remember - it is only a gameā¦
Is not my personal feeling. As I said, AS is based on a premise. A premise is more than a rule. This premise is everyone has to start with only 10 minutes millions.
Understand, please, IN FACT, if you receive almost free planes + 10.000.000, you are breaking that premise.
Law interpretation is not mathematics, but I have no doubt your procedure is wrong.
Iām a federal judge in my country. Of course it not counts here, but for me the mistake of this ādonationā in AS is clear like the sunlight.
No, you are wrong.
10 Mio AS$ is the starting point for everybody. The planes were put on the market, available for everybody at a cheap leasing. Same conditions for everyone. Can you agree?
It would be definitely unfair if a direct transfer would be possible. But this is not possible.
There is no break of any premises or rules.
EDIT: also by the way - not all planes were leased from me but also from AS with the normal AS leasing rate.
I cannot agree. You put the planes on market only for Spezialist. You and him adjusted everything, and you know that. Where are the planes? All with Denver Northern. Facts are more important than papers. Denver Nothern was made basically with your money. So, no matter the papers tell, Denver Northern is your subsidiary. All courts in the world, if this case is in a trial, will decide Denver Northern is a Fly Brazil group subsidiary.
And for laughing about all this stuff, Iām Brazilian.
Tell me just one thing. You told Spezialist the exact time the planes was available, right?
Iām going to bed now. Good night.
I really know you, Spezialist and all people with this procedure are not with bad faith, but I think all you are wrong.
Denver Northern and this kind of companies has no merit.
Thank you for your time and cordial words.
Iāll work on Air Wind.
I appreciate that these kind of shenanigans might not technically violate the letter of the law in these cases, but you are in denial if you believe they are ethical, fair, or in keeping with the spirit of the rules. As was pointed out previously, you can not lease an aircraft to a specific player because that would allow cheating. Flooding the market with incredibly under priced assets at a set time so your buddy can pick them up is clearly a dishonest workaround to the rules. If you canāt see that then you are deluded by greed and self interest, lulled into acceptance by the normalization of deviance.
I do agree with OP that this practice, which is currently deemed "legal", is somewhat problematic.
In other cases, players have been ruled cheaters because through some way they transferred some minor value to another player, stating it is illegal money transfer. Allowing cheap leases can transfer values in millions yet this is "legal" and deemed allowed. So what exactly is the difference?
And yes, everybody can lease a cheap aircraft on the market. But which player would then keep the lease running and say, whoops, it went to the "wrong" player, not the one I initially intended, and does not cancel it? I guess not few would keep the lease going with another player.
I personally believe, this practice should at least be reviewed. If it is deemed legal, then maybe some other forms of help should be allowed too.
Elson and Firt, unfortunately for your view, it is also how it works in real life. Elson as a Brazilian you are familiar with David Neeleman (and his airline in Brazil, Azul). If Neeleman decides to start airline in Peru, he will be in a completely different, much better, position than if I decide to do the same thing. Investors, lessors, even government will bent over backwards to accommodate his venture, while I will encounter all doors shut or almost shut. That's life. And supposedly we all have same opportunities in life... Or... Do we? Same here. So just get over it.