The world's ugliest airplanes

...You can see exactly where the Tupolev has a more "organic" and partly more refined look compared to the Concorde...

While exactly the opposite is true.

From a pure technical point of view, the Concorde has the superior design - it can do without canards for example.

Though I loved them both.

To stay on topic:

There’s hardly anything I’d call “ugly” when it comes to aircraft, though the early decades of aviation sure had some strange designs.

The one least appealing design in post WWII aviation that comes to mind would be the Baade 152.

I also think the Concorde looks betther than the Tupolev but i dont like both.

But this whole thread is just a opinion thing.

Theres no ugly or beautifull.

The one least appealing design in post WWII aviation that comes to mind would be the Baade 152.

Oh, I actually forgot to mention that one on my ugliest aircraft list but I can agree with you. Though it never entered service and only did 3 flights before serious malfunction were discovered. I still say that the Kawasaki P-1 is the ugliest aircraft currently in production and I am sure it would hold that title for some time.

Oh, I actually forgot to mention that one on my ugliest aircraft list but I can agree with you. Though it never entered service and only did 3 flights before serious malfunction were discovered. I still say that the Kawasaki P-1 is the ugliest aircraft currently in production and I am sure it would hold that title for some time.

Cannot agree on the P-1. It might not be a beauty, but it certainly is something special.

Something I cannot say about a 787-8 or SSJ. Those would be the ones I have on my top list for being non-beauties (I don’t want to use the word ugly)

Though I have to say that IMO the industrie stopped designing interesting jetliners in the 1970’s…

Development stops being interesting after one finds an allegedly perfect solution to a problem and everyone copies it. The 1950s saw a revolution of the aviation industry with the emergence of civil jet aircraft. It took a long time of experiments to produce safe, reliable and economical products which didn't tear themselves apart during the flight, but after this has been solved, there wasn't anything new to discover anymore. We went faster (Concorde), bigger (Boeing 747, Airbus A380) and more efficient, but there hasn't been much of a new, next big thing happening since then which would shake things up a bit and allow for new aircraft concepts.

With CFD and computers doing much of aerodynamic development there should be little surprise that the results now coming out of the hangars are pretty much the same. I already mentioned two of the recent clean-sheet designs: The CSeries being a 50% sized replica of the 787 is not industrial espionage, but simply applying the laws of physics to identical situations...

Differentiating from most people here I really like the 787s, Cseries, SSJs, MRJs, MC-21, etc. But I do do not really know what to say about the C919. Does it look fantastic or awful? I can not make up my mind as some days I see it as fantastic and other days as awful, I think I will have to fly in it before making up my mind.

ComcacC919.jpg

MRJ looks like E170-195

MC-21 looks like 767-200

C919 looks like CSeries

All these new planes from east look like older existing planes from west.

Development stops being interesting after one finds an allegedly perfect solution to a problem and everyone copies it. The 1950s saw a revolution of the aviation industry with the emergence of civil jet aircraft. It took a long time of experiments to produce safe, reliable and economical products which didn't tear themselves apart during the flight, but after this has been solved, there wasn't anything new to discover anymore. We went faster (Concorde), bigger (Boeing 747, Airbus A380) and more efficient, but there hasn't been much of a new, next big thing happening since then which would shake things up a bit and allow for new aircraft concepts.

With CFD and computers doing much of aerodynamic development there should be little surprise that the results now coming out of the hangars are pretty much the same. I already mentioned two of the recent clean-sheet designs: The CSeries being a 50% sized replica of the 787 is not industrial espionage, but simply applying the laws of physics to identical situations…

Quite well sums it up why I don't care much about today's (civil!) aircraft.

I have worked on aircraft that were designed in those 1950’s you mention.

Those were real aircraft: rugged metal structure, (reheated) turbojets with lots of smoke and music, clocks in the cockpits with no real autopilot. You know, aircraft that required true airmen to control them, not some computer controller who’s getting a cold sweat once the autopilot gets switched off on his computer aided flying plastic can. :wink:

From a todays perspective of being someone who just loves to hang around airports to breath some smell of burned fuel and tires together with getting a good dose of jet noise I have to say:

My interest is mostly for the engines:

I love the C-5A/B, but don’t care much about a C-5M.

It’s just sad that the real interesting stuff like JT-3Ds - housed in cowlings with secondary air inlet doors - or the beloved J79 of course are almost gone these days.

Give me a single 707-320C take off instead of a full day of 787, 737NG and CRJ operations.

Quite well sums it up why I don't care much about today's (civil!) aircraft.

I have worked on aircraft that were designed in those 1950’s you mention.

Those were real aircraft: rugged metal structure, (reheated) turbojets with lots of smoke and music, clocks in the cockpits with no real autopilot. You know, aircraft that required true airmen to control them, not some computer controller who’s getting a cold sweat once the autopilot gets switched of on his computer aided flying plastic can. :wink:

From a todays perspective of being someone who just loves to hang around airports to breath some smell of burned fuel and tires together with getting a good dose of jet noise I have to say:

My interest is mostly for the engines:

I love the C-5A/B, but don’t care much about a C-5M.

It’s just sad that the real interesting stuff like JT-3Ds - housed in cowlings with secondary air inlet doors - or the beloved J79 of course are almost gone these days.

Give me a single 707-320C take off instead of a full day of 787, 737NG and CRJ operations.

Oh, you would love living in my village. Everyday in the summer you can see and hear those JT3D-7 fitted under the NATO E-3 wings... awesome sound and I love the looks. (they fly here for training purposes about 400-500 kts and 3000-4500 ft (sometimes below since I can see the pilots facial expression almost...^^))

Sometimes I get to see bored An-124 pilots which fly to Nörvenich NATO Base. :D

EDIT: Which means quite low so you can see it is 100% a An-124 and nothing else...

Oh, you would love living in my village. Everyday in the summer you can see and hear those JT3D-7 fitted under the NATO E-3 wings... awesome sound and I love the looks. (they fly here for training purposes about 400-500 kts and 3000-4500 ft (sometimes below since I can see the pilots facial expression almost...^^))

Sometimes I get to see bored An-124 pilots which fly to Nörvenich NATO Base. :D

EDIT: Which means quite low so you can see it is 100% a An-124 and nothing else...

That is truly a different experience than what I have, I live exactly under the CPH approach on the swedish side (the aircraft turn around over Sweden before landing). When walking my dog it is a very common site to clearly see 787s, 737s, A320s, A340s, CRJ900s, A330s, 777s and now recently also the A380 flying in daily from Dubai. Seeing the A380 at less than 5000 feet is truly an experience.

Oh, you would love living in my village. Everyday in the summer you can see and hear those JT3D-7 fitted under the NATO E-3 wings... awesome sound and I love the looks. (they fly here for training purposes about 400-500 kts and 3000-4500 ft (sometimes below since I can see the pilots facial expression almost...^^))

Sometimes I get to see bored An-124 pilots which fly to Nörvenich NATO Base. :D

EDIT: Which means quite low so you can see it is 100% a An-124 and nothing else...

I was based at Neuburg AB (interceptor wing on F-4F Phantom II) and the E-3A was (still is) maintained/upgraded at nearby Manching AB, so I'm used to seeing the E-3A, too.

Love it, BUT: it doesn't exactly have JT3D-7 powerplants.

It has the mil. variant TF33-PW-100A which has an additional HPT stage and modified drives. It is higher rated but lacks both the JT3D-typical pylon built-in turbocompressors and secondary air inlet doors (due to redesigned intake lips IIRC) - both of which caused the caracteristic loud screech on the original JT3D cowls particularly during spool up.

I take it you remember the Geilenkirchen based 707-320C/TCA (trainer cargo aircraft) which were used by the E-3A component for crew training until a few years ago. Those had the 7D powerplants - N19997 and N20000 were ex Luftwaffe -307C and were re-engined from the -3B to the -7B IIRC. A shame that 19997 wasn't preserved (Germany's so-to-say "Air Force One"), but we at least could preserve N20000 (ex 10+04 "Hermann Köhl") over here at Manching.

Sorry for going way off topic...

Let me throw in another aircraft that wasn't a beauty, the Russki Witjas. Of course, different times, different designs...

If we are going into discussing beautiful Sikorsky aircraft there could never be complete list without the S-42. Those truly were other days regarding aircraft design.

1280px-Sikorsky_S-42_PAA_taking_off_in_1

While exactly the opposite is true.

From a pure technical point of view, the Concorde has the superior design - it can do without canards for example.

Though I loved them both.

 

I said "appearance" and if you do take a look at the slope of the wings you might be able to see what I am referring to. I was not referring to performance, but apperance. The Tu-144 is much bigger, anyway.

An airplane that functions with or without canards btw. is not superior or inferior. Otherwise we might have to ask the Russians why they chose to have them on the Su-34 but not the older Su-27. Have they developed the plane backwards? Why does the Rafale have Canards when the Mirages as their spiritual predecessors did not require them? Why does the Eurofighter need them? Is it inferior to the F4?

Sorry for these pointed remarks, but be please careful with "true and false" and watch the context.

I said "appearance" and if you do take a look at the slope of the wings you might be able to see what I am referring to. I was not referring to performance, but apperance. The Tu-144 is much bigger, anyway.

An airplane that functions with or without canards btw. is not superior or inferior. Otherwise we might have to ask the Russians why they chose to have them on the Su-34 but not the older Su-27. Have they developed the plane backwards? Why does the Rafale have Canards when the Mirages as their spiritual predecessors did not require them? Why does the Eurofighter need them? Is it inferior to the F4?

Sorry for these pointed remarks, but be please careful with "true and false" and watch the context.

I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to tell me.

When I say that a canard hints to a less perfect design on a Tu-144 then I'm NOT saying that a canard design is inferior to having no canards. Come on!

Even though it's going further off topic here, what do we have:

A double or ogival delta like you have it on a Concorde and Tu-144 (series version) is there to allow for an acceptable performance over the entire projected speed range - from low speeds for landing to supersonic. If designed as a true masterpiece the center of lift barely shifts with decreasing speeds. If - for whatever reason - the wing is not capable of this, your center of lift most likely will shift aft the slower you go, making the aircraft "nose-heavy" during low speeds. You could either live with HIGH approach speeds or...

The canard on the Tu-144 was there to counterforce this by adding lift front of the CoG at low speeds. The approach speeds still were ridiculousely high on the Tu-144. The Concorde's wing was just about perfect, with less weight, offering great caracteristics over the entire flight envelope and so didn't need such retractable device (adding weight and system complexity)

As you mention Rafale etc.

What do we have there design-wise?

A Rafale (in contrast to a Mirage 2000) was projected to be a multi-purpose fighter to serve for both Aviation embarquée (carrier ops!) and Armée de l’air units.

The canards on the Rafale followed the same design Saab used ealier on their awesome Viggen design.

The prime purpose of those canards is to manipulate (control) airflow on the main wing at high AoA, thus effectively increasing lift/reducing min. speeds while at the same time increasing maneuvering capabilities. Low speeds were required on both to give them short landing capabilities.

Same for Saab's Gripen.

The canards on a Eurofighter again are different as can be seen by their positioning relative to the wing.

The EF is an extremely unstable design (low stability = high agility). The canards are used to max out manueverabilty. The Eurofighter relies on a complex flight control system to keep the aircraft under control. So all inputs (both from the pilot and from sensors) are fed into the FCS which then creates an optimised command going to elevons and canards.

So if you really want to compare the EF to the F-4 design (really?): An EF design wouldn't have been possible in the late 1950's, as the computer power required to control it would have probably filled a house. And as I said above, the F-4 barely had an autopilot to start with... The reason why the F-4 looked like it did is a whole different story.

I'm honestly not sure about the Su-34 canards, but would think their position aims at a mix of both of the above. They are also governed by an FCS allowing extreme maneuvers (making some nice airshow gimmicks) but as well manipulate air flow on the main wing.

See. Now we're talking. I was writing about the appearance, now you've got it. You turned it into a performance discussion. I was relating to the "organic and in part more refined" APPEARANCE. From my point of view, the Tu looks less like a pencil and more like a bird when sitting next to the Concorde.

For performance reasons, I would still like to quote two random facts: The Concorde required 3.6kms of runway for a safe take-off. The Tu-144 reportedly used less than 2! Moreover, regarding payload, the Tu-144 is much less of a compromise than the cramped, narrow Concorde is. Take a walk around the planes in Sinsheim. You may now cite superior range and lower landing speeds for the Concorde and you will be 100% correct, but to get back to the point: This was about beauty.

You nailed it on the canards for the EF, as well as the Su-34. These are for agility reasons. For the Rafale AND the Tu-144, they improve low speed handling and stability. The absence or presence of canards are a technical measure that follows one or more goals. They do not say anything about a plane being more or less efficient, which is what you seem to have implied in your first answer to my post.

A Rafale (in contrast to a Mirage 2000) was projected to be a multi-purpose fighter to serve for both Aviation embarquée (carrier ops!) and Armée de l’air units.

The canards on the Rafale followed the same design Saab used ealier on their awesome Viggen design.

The prime purpose of those canards is to manipulate (control) airflow on the main wing at high AoA, thus effectively increasing lift/reducing min. speeds while at the same time increasing maneuvering capabilities. Low speeds were required on both to give them short landing capabilities.

Same for Saab's Gripen.

The canards on a Eurofighter again are different as can be seen by their positioning relative to the wing.

The EF is an extremely unstable design (low stability = high agility). The canards are used to max out manueverabilty. The Eurofighter relies on a complex flight control system to keep the aircraft under control. So all inputs (both from the pilot and from sensors) are fed into the FCS which then creates an optimised command going to elevons and canards.

You nailed it on the canards for the EF, as well as the Su-34. These are for agility reasons. For the Rafale AND the Tu-144, they improve low speed handling and stability.

Just out of interest: the canards of Rafale and Gripen are fully actuated and are intended as control surface as well. Also both aircaft are unstable designs for high maneuverability - as usual today, no highly developed country ever built a fighter without such systems for decades. Even the old Mirage 2000 from the seventies was a relaxed stability design with a quadruple digital FBW flight control system. No news at all. So: what is the special deal with the EF? Is it just lacking the low speed capabilities, compared to the Rafale?

Finally, mentioning the thread title: One of the ugliest planes in my point of view is the Beechcraft Premier 1. Looks like a pregnant duck ;)

Just out of interest: the canards of Rafale and Gripen are fully actuated and are intended as control surface as well. Also both aircaft are unstable designs for high maneuverability - as usual today, no highly developed country ever built a fighter without such systems for decades. Even the old Mirage 2000 from the seventies was a relaxed stability design with a quadruple digital FBW flight control system. No news at all. So: what is the special deal with the EF? Is it just lacking the low speed capabilities, compared to the Rafale?

 

Finally, mentioning the thread title: One of the ugliest planes in my point of view is the Beechcraft Premier 1. Looks like a pregnant duck :wink:

Sure, FBW and FCS-governed controls are standard. You find them on an F-16 as well as on the Mirage 2000 mentioned, hence you can design them less stable. In case of those 70’s designs, available processing power was only sufficient to “relax” stability. An F-16 was so in subsonic and the M2000 for example was able to make use of (contolled) LE-slats.

The prime target in the much later EF-program was an aircaft that is not just “relaxed” but as unstable as possible. So it all was depending on the power of the FCS. With its capabilities it was possible to mount canards way front of the turn (pitch) axis, increasing capabilities beyond those found on a Rafale or Gripen (which are closer to the wing for mentioned reasons)

The EF wasn’t required to operate from carrier decks or out of short strips, so higher landing speeds were ok.

...Let me throw in another aircraft that wasn't a beauty, the Russki Witjas. Of course, different times, different designs...

I had never heard of that plane, but thanks to Google, here it is.

And what do you mean... a plane with a balcony... it's cute  :)