Strange turnaround (cabin cleaning) times B739 vs. B738


#1

Can anybody explain?

Boeing 739 configured to 122 PAX has time for cabin cleaning set to 15 minutes, while B738 for only 110 PAX has this part of turnaround time set to 24 minutes....?!

It means, that all Turnaround Activities for smaller B738 are by 7 minutes longer than for larger B739.

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A318 vs DH4. Can someone explain this ?
#2

It seems nobody has a clue...

So I found another bug: my other Boeing 739 configured this time for 120 PAX has cabin cleaning time 26 minutes! The same plane with less people on board has longer turnaround by 10 minutes...?!

I'm gonna send it to support.


#3

It has to do with mix of business and economy seats and I also think how wide the aisle is. Depends upon the type of seat.


#4

wasn't there a statement somewhere on the board, that there is the assumptiom of a certain number of cleaning staff based upon the number of seats (not sure whether installed or max capacity) that determines the time cleaning take? that can have the strange effect, that a smaller aircraft actually needs longer for cleaning than a bigger aircraft.

I am sure this can be found by taking advantage of the search function of this board


#5

It has to do with mix of business and economy seats and I also think how wide the aisle is. Depends upon the type of seat.

Then questions are:

- what it has exactly to do with mix of C/Y configuration?

- how it exactly depends upon the type of seat?

- why it is not mentioned in Cabin Editor engine, if cabin configuration affects this parameter absolutely unpredictable?


#6

Then questions are:

  • what it has exactly to do with mix of C/Y configuration?

  • how it exactly depends upon the type of seat?

  • why it is not mentioned in Cabin Editor engine, if cabin configuration affects this parameter absolutely unpredictable?


Sorry, forgot to mention, flight duration also affects cabin cleaning time.

#7

It has to do with mix of business and economy seats and I also think how wide the aisle is. Depends upon the type of seat.

As support did not answered to me yet, I made another test:

- the same route

- the same prices

- the same service profiles

- THE SAME TYPE OF SEATS!

- B739 with 8C and 114Y has cleaning time 15 minutes

- B738 with 4C and 108Y has cleaning time 24 minutes, 8C and 96Y has cleaning time 23 minutes

- the isle then is equally wide, of course

Less C seat and less Y and less total number of seats means longer cleaning time!? No, there is not function which can describe this. It is just a bug in basic B738 setting up.


#8

Hate to quote myself, but…

"wasn’t there a statement somewhere on the board, that there is the assumptiom of a certain number of cleaning staff based upon the number of seats (not sure whether installed or max capacity) that determines the time cleaning take? that can have the strange effect, that a smaller aircraft actually needs longer for cleaning than a bigger aircraft.

I am sure this can be found by taking advantage of the search function of this board"


#9

Hate to quote myself, but....

"wasn’t there a statement somewhere on the board, that there is the assumptiom of a certain number of cleaning staff based upon the number of seats (not sure whether installed or max capacity) that determines the time cleaning take? that can have the strange effect, that a smaller aircraft actually needs longer for cleaning than a bigger aircraft.

I am sure this can be found by taking advantage of the search function of this board"

I dug here on forum any information about "my problem", but found nothing. So I started this post.

Then it is, what you described now and before, a clear definition of bug. As you can see from my examples, it can not be a function of max. capacity, because is changing with types and numbers seats installed.

Everything here in this game is based upon matematics functions. I will also quote mysel, but...there is not function which can describe this, if the input parameters are correct.

But what I really do not understand is, why you do not admit, that I just found small error :-).


#10

a) where do I say that I do not think this behavior is unrealistic?

b) I wrote, I was not sure whether it is based on max capacity or actually installed seats. you figured that out, it is based on installed seats, so there is your function describing it. btw, since this is a computer based simulation, there HAS TO BE a function behind it, whether you can guess at what that function is or not.

c) after looking for it myself, I noticed, the discussion I was thinking of was in German


#11

I think the Dynamic Turnarounds are full of bugs; especially the cabin cleanig. I have done many tests, and have never found a logical pattern in it. Just an example:

If I fit an A320 with better seating, I get longer cabin cleanig times; with the A321 it´s the other way round. There´s even a difference in this effect between A320 and A320neo. The more I test the more confused I get.

Sorry, but this feature seems to be far from a final stage.


#12

As support did not answered to me yet, I made another test:

- the same route

- the same prices

- the same service profiles

- THE SAME TYPE OF SEATS!

- B739 with 8C and 114Y has cleaning time 15 minutes

- B738 with 4C and 108Y has cleaning time 24 minutes, 8C and 96Y has cleaning time 23 minutes

- the isle then is equally wide, of course

Less C seat and less Y and less total number of seats means longer cleaning time!? No, there is not function which can describe this. It is just a bug in basic B738 setting up.

Does the 739 have more FAs? 


#13

I think the Dynamic Turnarounds are full of bugs; especially the cabin cleanig. I have done many tests, and have never found a logical pattern in it. Just an example:

If I fit an A320 with better seating, I get longer cabin cleanig times; with the A321 it´s the other way round. There´s even a difference in this effect between A320 and A320neo. The more I test the more confused I get.

Sorry, but this feature seems to be far from a final stage.

Its due to the number of FAs I think. A321 can have more FAs cleaning the cabin per seat. 


#14

FAs are cleaning the planes? Interesting…


#15

I think the Dynamic Turnarounds are full of bugs; especially the cabin cleanig. 

What do you expect? Bug fixing or actual development? Please....we can talk once the new project is finished. Of course, by that time PU wont play in the future anymore.  ;)

*Sarcasm off*


#16

Its due to the number of FAs I think. A321 can have more FAs cleaning the cabin per seat. 

Yes, B739 has two more FAs than B738. And if you are right and cleaning time is also function of number of FAs (what I would not have thought at all)..... then al this situation (and my probems to make schedule with B738)  is not logical, but "understandable" now.

But help me than, as my airline is real legacy carrier, no such Ryan-sh.t or something similar, where FAs must clean the cabin to save a few bucks on handling :angry: :angry:


#17

I assume (I don't know the actual logic, so I'm just speculating as you all are) it is a function that has some steps in it, causing weird effects.

Assume you can have 1 cleaner for 30 seats. And it takes a certain amount of time to clean one seat, let's say 0.5 minutes per seat. Furthermore, there's a limit per aircraft of number of cleaners you can send, cos they would step on each other's feet.

Having 88 seats (just an assumption) would have 2 cleaners cleaning 44 seats each. That would take some 22 minutes. Let's further assume you now add 2 seats, you would get a 3rd cleaner, and every cleaner now only needs to clean 30 seats, resulting in a cleaning time of 15 minutes.

I guess, it is something similar to that, although there could be more factors playing in, like number of (service) doors, classes, service profiles, etc. It might seems erratic, but the underlying logic is probably perfectly reasonable.


#18

I assume (I don't know the actual logic, so I'm just speculating as you all are) it is a function that has some steps in it, causing weird effects.

 

Assume you can have 1 cleaner for 30 seats. And it takes a certain amount of time to clean one seat, let’s say 0.5 minutes per seat. Furthermore, there’s a limit per aircraft of number of cleaners you can send, cos they would step on each other’s feet.

 

Having 88 seats (just an assumption) would have 2 cleaners cleaning 44 seats each. That would take some 22 minutes. Let’s further assume you now add 2 seats, you would get a 3rd cleaner, and every cleaner now only needs to clean 30 seats, resulting in a cleaning time of 15 minutes

The arbitrary steps explain part of the problem - but not why in some cases more seats mean shorter, in some cases longer cleaning time! The developer seems to sit on the fence about the question: Does it take longer to clean two rows of economy or one row of first class seats?

Why dont you make it simple: Cleaning depends on cabin size and number of doors - that´s it.


#19

These Turnaround Activities piss off me really...

The same aircraft and cabin configurations, the same sizes and categories of airports(4 bars regional airports), flight durations differ by one munute (58 and 59 minutes) and total turnaround times are different by 6 minutes!!

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And b.t.w., one month is gone and I did not received a single word from support (case #29055) yet.


#20

@yukawa @Fluggast07 @Ulafme

Here is the link to the German forum from 2015, where the Problem is discussed and Martin explained why things are the way they are. He also aknowledges the problems:

I was shocked to see that these issues have been known for over three years without anyone doing anything about them. I have played AS since 2008 and stopped in 2013. Just got back into it again, playing on a couple of legacy servers, but also wanted to try the current Version, so signed up to Hoover. Completely unplayable due to the unpredictabilities of DTA and especially cleaning. I am gonna close my account on Hoover again. Shocked this has not been fixed in such a long time.